Working line can work????

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by Vikram on 04 March 2009 - 07:03

Atharths,
I just hope that this thread does not become an unplesant pissing match. I would just recommend you one thing my friend, I presume you have been a master in the show ring. Just Try once owning a Working Line German Shepherd. You will know what the real dog is and should be...

Thanks & Regards

by Mystere on 04 March 2009 - 14:03

Vikram, There is no sense in suggesting that he get a WL dog to work. First, he needs to take his SL dog(s) and do one lousy trial with it. He needs to have some frame of reference for comparison. But, first, he needs to get the first clue about training and trialing.

by 4pack on 04 March 2009 - 14:03

Any video of this SL Mystere? I'd like to actually see it's work. Just because it was there doesn't make it impressive. Not sure Canada's VA was what I was looking for either. Atarths did point out that only German bred SL's are the real deal, so that would be SS VA dogs from Germany, that the whole world is drooling over, not some Canadian Sieger trash.

by lonewulf on 04 March 2009 - 15:03

I am depressed!

by snajper69 on 04 March 2009 - 15:03

I seen Canadian SL that went VA and were decent working dog's could not realy compeat with top WL but they def. were not dissapointment, but I do agree theye were good due to a great training.

by 4pack on 04 March 2009 - 15:03

The below is what Atarths wrote and what I am addressing. He makes no mention of Canadian dogs, only German Sieger Show dogs. So again...anybody with a VA SS dog that can outwork last years 40th WUSV dog?

"When the siegershow started in Germany the competitors were ALL one type or line, indeed up until recently , the VA dogs SHOWN at the worlds most important SHOW were one line ALL of them were proven dogs in work but they were all SHOWN the reason was not some abstruct sense of beauty, the reason was to pick up the best specimens and identify the gene pool for future generations.

Despite what a few WL fanatics say on this board the test that matters is the breeds biggest event the German Siegershow at the motherland of the breed. And wether you guys like it or not the whole world gets blood from the Siegershow's gene pool, why ? because there lies true quality and showdogs ,that can work equally as good or even better than WL dogs,do
come out of these great lines. It is true that a very high percentage of the puppies sold go to private homes and used as pets , never finding there place for work. But this is because the SL GSD is such a beautiful dog everybody wants to have,
This does not take anything away from their working ability though. SL dogs that are given work to do , do it as good or better than WL. Beauty and harmony is what people through the years have been trying to produce , without sacrifizing working ability. And these qualities you can find only in SL "

Sorry I'm still puting my jaw back up where it belongs after reading this, yet again...I have to know if there is "really" anybody who actually believes that crap?

by Jeff Oehlsen on 04 March 2009 - 15:03

I wonder what the true percentages really are???

Both for working lines that can work, ad show lines that can work, not to slam, but as a perspective.

by missbeeb on 04 March 2009 - 16:03

Now... that would be interesting, Jeff! Know what else would be interesting?

To know how many people need a really good dog before they can work... that's to say, a great dog can make a crappy handler look good... I've seen a few and they've only ever really made it with that one good dog.

There's little doubt that W/L dogs are generally, if not always, easier to train. At least one person on this thread has almost said, that only really good trainers can get to the top with showlines... which pretty much validates what I've said on other threads... that maybe, showlines need more / better training to get the best out of them?

Don't start "having a go" at me for saying this... all the shitty stuff is just too dreary! I'd like to find some middle ground, hopefully, to learn more myself (Sch) and to benefit OUR breed.

by DeesWolf on 04 March 2009 - 16:03

missbeeb,

Interesting that you say this. I have always thought that there are probably more capable SL dogs out there, but time, effort, and proper foundation are lacking. Sadly, we will never know if some of these dogs really have what it takes.

This has become my new favorite Max quote, of late. Seems rather appropriate now.

"The success of all employment as an assistant of man depends in the first place on expert leadership, whereby the dog is always put in just the right place, and where the man is so well-acquainted with the peculiarities of the dog that he always knows how to interpret correctly the meaning of the dog's signs. A leader without expert knowledge of and affection for the dog will achieve only very mediocre results with the best trained dog; while an expert dog-loving leader can achieve good results with a dog of only fair capacity. In other words, the whole question of the Service dog is not only a question of the dog, but quite as much if not more so, a question of the fitness of the leader."
~Max von Stephanitz

by missbeeb on 04 March 2009 - 16:03

That's the first time I've heard of that quote, Deeswolf... thank you, I think he puts it better than moi... just slightly! LOL

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