Hey all you long coat lovers and UKC people, check this out! - Page 12

Don't worry Louise, LOL  I'll stick around here too to watch all of the fighting that goes on here!  Quite entertaining!

 Cate,

Unfortunately, there are people in Schutzhund, as in other avenues of life, who have their minds made up about issues. When I started in SchH I was told my dogs were "shitty" by not one but several people. In one instance the person made this comment without so much as asking to see the dog do something or test the dog. This dog was half American and half German showlines and despite his age of 2.5 years and my inexperience, we made it to SchH 2, KKL1 and a V rating multiple times in conformation before I felt it was too risky to jump him. I am not into injuring my dog just for a title.

My other dog was also a showline imported from Germany and was about 6 months old when such comments as I noted above were made. I trained her to SchH3. She is one of the best workers one will ever see and she received repeated praise from many trial judges who saw her work. Though the same people who said she was "shitty" would probably never admit it, they are well aware of her abilities and I know they respect her now.

Unfortunately, though V rated and KKL1, she produced soft ears in some of her pups and I will not breed her again. I also have helped title other dogs and have many BHs under my belt. The fact is, there are people out there who are idiots and who make decisions based on their preconceived notions. Is this right? No, it is not and often in my experience, they turn away people for such reasons when, in fact, the dog and the person COULD do it given some help and commitment on all parties behalf. In my club, we do not turn away anyone who is committed. That being said, most people are NOT committed and waste the time of clubs and that gets old as it takes time away from other people who are serious.

I believe that if all one learns in a club is to have an obedient and under control dog, who is also well socialized, and that the owner learns more about canine behavior and the responsibility of being a dog owner that this is, in itself, a triumph for all involved. Better yet if one can get a BH and still better if the person/dog can get a SchH title and be shown. The most important thing about this sport, and what differs dramatically from Germany especially, is that this sport has, in fact, in this country, evolved to a point where we are shooting ourselves in the foot. We turn away people with dogs just because the dog is longcoated, white, a show line, because of bloodlines etc. etc. etc. Who gives a damn? I look for the commitment. If one is committed we will work with any person and any dog. I also then look at the individual dog and not just once. Sometimes it takes a while to get something out of a dog, especially one who has not been "groomed" for sport.

No, not all clubs are as you describe or as I describe. In my personal experience i had to work alone, with private individuals and pay them and go to trials, read, watch video etc. etc. etc. Eventually I formed my own club. We have no permanent helper and it makes it even more expensive to do this. But we do it because we all are committed and we welcome others who have that same desire. 

The fact of the matter is that not all dogs can title and that includes both working and show lines. There are a variety of reasons for a given dog not being successful . The first hinderance iincludes the temperament and imprinting of the dog. The second factor involves the owner/handler. Often they too have a mountain of preconceived notions to overcome. 

I suggest anyone who is serious about doing SchH look and look and look until you find a club and or a private person who can help. If you want to do it, you can. That being said, one must approach the sport with an open mind and realize that there are reasons why one must constantly evaluate what the goal is and how realistic it is. It is very difficult, for example, to take a dog with little prey drive, one who could ca

Sometimes people aren't serious enough for the club in question, sometimes the dog is of questionable character or not suited for the sport, sometimes the person just doesn't mesh well with that group of people. 

There is also the issue of "enough helper".  I belonged to a club once that pretty much welcomed with open arms,  everyone who showed a little interest in the sport.  While that sounds good in theory it doesn't work in reality.  We ended up with lots of people who wanted to have a little fun and socialize but weren't serious about getting titles or competing.  The helpers get tired and burned out, plus you end up being out at club until midnight  on a regular basis.   

For Bouviers, you need to contact Butch Henderson at http://www.libertycanine.com/index.htm

Butch has always had nice Bouvs.

Chris

Mystere - I think I know who you are talking about with the bouvier - her name is Liz right?

Silbersee - thanks for the link - I've heard alot of  good things about him through my helper and some of the guys I work with - I think he also works with Liz's kennel - which has dobermans...one of my helpers dobes came from them.

lol - right now I am not looking because I am working with my harder case - which is imported and state side WSs.  It was more of a comment for the future  (I am at my 2.5 dog limit right now....and will be until I find a house O.o)- I like working with some of the different breeds...lol...which I probably also get from my helper - he taught a bosten terrier bitework some years ago - and I am not gonna lie...for all that he was tiny the dog was nasty :p

The point I was trying to make was not so much about the helper - lol - believe me - I know how the helper looks at things makes a difference - if I didnt care then I would have been booted out - because I do *alot* of work at home with my girl and as a result the difference between her first day an now is like night and day...though age and teething also has some to do with that :p

What I was saying is that there are definetley clubs and people who wont even give the handler or the dog a chance - they'll look at the dog...then look at the helper and say goodbye.  A club in DC did that to me when I mentioned I had a WS (it was through emails, but it was basically no response from them once I mentioned that).  And one of the puppy owners in CA from one of my friends has gone to multiple clubs and been turned away - without even a second glance at the dog - and that is not the first time I have heard that happening because of a white coat - but then again - I also know of clubs that have allowed white dogs with an initial poopoo and gotten over it - open minds help.  I think that it is best to keep an open mind...especially with a sport - and I think that not enough people do.

~Cate

Ceph,

was it my club which turned you away (Greater Wash)? I hope not! Butch is in that club as well. If you are in need of a good bunch of people, I know of a great DVG club close by. They do not discriminate against any breed or type of dog.

Chris

I dont know the name of the club - it was last spring just after I had reserved Ruby.  I believe it was a working dog club rather than a DVG specific club - but I do remember that they had a mastiff and a rescue Maly.  I think it might have also had something to do with the mostly showlines that she comes from O.o

I havent heard anything bad about your club - lol...I know I have heard Butch's name before (I keep confusing it with my clubs Butch O.o) and I think my helper has worked with him before.  I wanted to get a start in DC because at the time I could find *nothing* in Roanoke.  Is it your club that keeps hosting all those awsome seminars?

lol - and I am glad there is a DVG club nearby - I am def. going to use that when Ruby and Leo are old enough to compete :p  Which club is it out of mild curiosity?  I thought Matt and Liz's was the only one in VA - and they are the ones that pointed me in the direction of my group.

~Cate

okay - there's one really awsome Bouvier near me in Bedford - so I thought the owners might be the same person.

Thanks for the information guys - like I said - I have a pretty awsome group of people right now - and my helper is letting me steal a little extra of his time if I come up and cook for him and his roomate - which is an okay deal for me.  The only DVG club I had found is the Keystone-Buckeye club in Bedford - and they're the ones that sent me in the direction of my group - lol - but I am going to have to utilize the websites again to find some trials in about a year :)

~Cate