Czech Bloodlines. - Page 12

CopDogs.you said:I do not know Mambo from Bozo , he may produce wonderful dogs but to think that he will not produce a dysplastic dog is crazy, they all do , if you or me or any human could figure hips out we would be billionaires LOL
I have nowhere said that Mambo does not produce bad hips. As a matter of fact I will say that any dog if bred enough will produce bad hips. Please read what I have actually said I ave said that Mambo produced in 2009 in Czech rep 83% of good hips.

As far as putting dogs down and or being in pain due to HD. 
Here is my experience and it may be different than yours .   Dogs do not have problem due to arthritis but
to arthritis  which if HD is presents  starts to  set in in about 4 years of age of the dog and get progressively worse until about 8 years. Then the dog may have enough problem to walk. However this pain usually can be controlled by medications.  I firmly believe that people who put dog down because HD in early age either panic or dog was misdiagnosed and  has had some other problem which causes the dog to have problem to walk and people firmly believe  that it is hips,   but they are often wrong. I will repeat I am not saying that it is not possible, but I personally and I asked other breeders and they concur that I personally have not seen the dog which must  be put down because of bad hips below 8 years. The operant wort is must be.   I am sure a lot of theme were put down but I question the necessity.
And to say that a lot of Mambo's offspring's  were put  for that reason down and it  that had to be done really early in life like up to maybe 4 years I just know that it is not truth that they had to  be put down because arthritis at that age is not that bad even in worse HD cases. Thus I then question all the ambiguous statement.

Also I have another thing to say. If the hips are mildly bad it is often worse then if the hips are completely out of the socket. Because in severe HD bones are nor rubbing as much and there is often less arthritis. That is my ( am sure controversial and unconventional) experience. There is even a surgery which removes femoral heads in order to alleviate the symptoms of HD and arthritis. No femoral heads. That would be the ultimate HD. Right?
And I approve this message:)))
 
Prager Hans

 Hans,
I see that you have produced repeated litters of Quint x Erin.  I assume you must have been pleased with the first results to have repeated the breeding.  The pictures on your web page indicate a very uniform litter phenotypically at their young age.  I was wondering, since the first litter is now older do you see uniformity in their temperaments?  How would you characterize them in terms of drives, intelligence, willingness to please, etc.?  More suited as sport dogs? Police Service dogs? Family pets?  Personal protection dogs?  If you would prefer to answer in a PM I will be happy to contact you via email.  I am just trying to get a better sense of your dogs' inherent drives and what they produce as I attempt to learn more about Czech dogs.  Thank you.

I  asked about Faro Policia and with our kennel having dogs from Faro I would like to hear the good and the bad also as most of us would like to get away from the Klara's, Grisha's and of coarse Uran
Looking at the Stats for Faro in 2007 stats book I see he only produced 6 pups in which 4 - 0/0 and 2- 1/1, makes me wonder why he wasn't bred more if he was suppose to be a great dog. I would like to hear more information on him.

3) Tamara was asking about Xero z Pohranicni Straze and the issues that followed his breeding, having a few dogs here with him in the pedigree only made me after purchasing the dogs turn around and retire one female and the male will be shipped out to be a parimeter dog and not bred.
Even when you bring good dogs to his pedigree there isn't enough strong dogs to offset Xero
Now in 2007 Stats book he produced 62 dogs which 36 - 0/0. 5 - 1/1, 12 - 2/2. and 9 -3/3 which stats are still not very good either, but this is just hips alone not even going into any other issues.

But these stats are only the breeding that took place outside the Policia and Z Pohranicni Straze kennels as the breeding that took place in those kennels were not ever published as you and I both know.

I would like to clear the air a bit cause I feel you are feeling that I am blaming you for some of the dogs that I had purchased in my kennel from a breeder that you supplied with dogs,  This is not at all what I was saying. The purchases of these dogs are only on my shoulders and no one else

These stats are from the books that  you have access to also so this is where I get some of my information that I have asked and since you have had close dealing with these dogs I figure there is nobody else to ask, as most that have owned these dogs I'm asking about either don't know or are not willing to share information I ask.

4) I would like to hear about Car Policia as I have a bit of a hassle finding good information on him

geordie
czech bloodlines as opposite to west is a bit of a big comparison because in both west and czech you have different lines with different strenghts and weaknesses

in  the czech  bloodlines im breeding and working  with , I find several advantages over quite a few of the west dogs

ill give you a few
1 ; no  need to use the whip , they are spirited more than enough by themselves
2 ; better balance of prey/defensedrive , sharpness
      in the IPO program this results in better guarding , faster reactions etc
      in west lines I see sometimes the transport lookes more like a heeling exercise
3 ; better natural trackingabilities

offcoarse this doesnot apply every czech dog and every west , but are my points of view in the bloodlines Im using

biggest reason IMO , is that the czech breeding luckely mist out on about 40 years of commercial breeding and sport/points breeding , no mambo jambo about bitingincidents and korung with that in mind   etc

but if you look at the czech breeding at this time they are catching up on the commercial/sport system like hell , and will give up that 40 years , in only a few years time , as many czech breeders now also run to breed bomber , javier,hank bosco etc

my hope is that there will be few breeders in czech and other countries that keep these lines available

from my breedings dogs are used in RING  , IPO , KNPV , SAR , PPD , NARCOTICS , PATROLDOGS
I think this versatility of abilities is hard to find in westdogs because most of them are purely sportoriented , as they are bred for that many generations , en very good at that I must say

Ive seen some very good crosses of czech with westline dogs in the czech republik , but to breed these crosses in the future you need to keep the pure czechline dogs with their abilities available , and not tossed together with everything in the meltingpot

yep , not to long from now the only difference on a czechdog will be the place were it was born.

The difference is not only on geographical location of where the dog is being bred, but mainly on the culture and philosophy of people doing it. Thus people in Czech and people in Germany may breed the same stud but will breed him to different females and with different purpose in mind. Thus they will then select different type of such dogs progeny for different qualities based on their culture and philosophy.  You can do the same!
The GSD originally all came from Germany, but Czechs did with them different things breeding wise and practically then Germans have done. That is how Czech dogs developed and are still developing. 
Also let me say this
Today there are Czech lines  which are what  the   old dogs were,  but only better and more consistent.  WHO says that? I do and the creator of Czech "z Pohranicni straze" line. So do not be Luddite and stop whining and if you want to breed dogs for what they they were originally intend it, educate your self and do it! GSD needs that. 
MOST IMPORTANTLY
Keep in mind that genetically everything from the wolf to your current stud or dam is there in your dog  . All of it. Thus it vastly depends on what people want to buy and you can recreate it. When you are buying dogs from Czech vote with your dollar and demand dogs of old type. I implore you to do that! Example: Several years back someone came with dark sable dogs. Now in 3 generations it seems that that is all we have. Look at any pedigree with pictures and you'll see that I am right. 3 generations. So do not dispair. Breed dogs which can kick ass. Nobody is stopping you. We were talking with Jiri about it and we agreed that all the best dogs get imported into USA . But people here think that they get the leftover crap. BS. Take those dogs and do something with them instead trying to figure why they are bad and whine about it. Take a dog like Mambo and breed him properly and you will get GREAT dogs. That's what they have done and still do  in Czech.  
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com  

LadyVol71
 Yes I have bred Quint to Erin 2 times.   I got consistency in structure and temperament in both litters. The older litter is going to be 17 mo thus I will do x ray on my girl Blitzy z Alpine in severral mo. She is a Medium sized, somewhat square in structure,  gray sable ( like her mother) with tan on her legs like her father. The temperament is dominant, friendly, almost too happy in the house, really loves to please, but is also  protective and territorial and tenacious in her protection. I would say that she is suitable for any kind of work like S&R or police or family life. She is all around dog.  If it sounds like I am praising her too much  well maybe it is because I  think she is super. So far I  can not see any problems structurally or in temperament.  I hope Jiri is going to come here again this fall and will take an unbiased look at her.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com