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by Ruger1 on 12 July 2011 - 18:07
Me and my male Prince were
The trainer handed my check back and told me that Prince was missing some screws...lol...Suggested that I put him down, and don't let the door hit ya in the butt on your way out...I felt very betrayed by those trainers , as I had worked with them since Prince was a 9 weeks old....I did understand their concern, but it still bothered me...
The best option I had close to home, in my ignorance , burned that bridge...I was up a creek without a paddle...: (
Very, Very long story made short.....
Prince met VonIsengard ( Kelly ).......I drove 6 hrs and was certain that Prince was going to lay into this poor women and I would be driving back home with my nasty little male GSD....
I was afraid to take Prince out of the truck when we got there...lol...I could NOT believe this women was not afraid ....I was horrified...I figured she just did not understand how truly mean my male was and she was going to get bit for sure....
I took Prince out of the truck...VonIsengard ( Kelly ) asked me for the leash, and within 60 seconds Prince licked Kelly's cheek...: )
I cried all the way home tears of relief and joy......: )
by laura271 on 12 July 2011 - 18:07
Thank-you for all the good comments on this thread. It's helpful for me to know that others would feel uncomfortable in a similar situation. My husband, who attends class with me, is completely unfazed by the incident but not much bothers him (probably because the dog is smaller than a charging bull or ram).
What I didn't clearly state in my OP was that after the dog attacked the trainer, he started working with the dog, and he had the situation under control (he was completely calm). He's an old school trainer with lots of experience. My concern was that the dog attacked without any provocation and that the dog continued to try to attack the trainer - there's no way I could have handled that dog if I had been the unfortunate person within range. Rik's post is in line with what we're going to do- we'll talk with the trainer, explain our concerns, and see what he says. As others have pointed out, it just isn't worth the potential risk to ourselves or Senta.
What I didn't clearly state in my OP was that after the dog attacked the trainer, he started working with the dog, and he had the situation under control (he was completely calm). He's an old school trainer with lots of experience. My concern was that the dog attacked without any provocation and that the dog continued to try to attack the trainer - there's no way I could have handled that dog if I had been the unfortunate person within range. Rik's post is in line with what we're going to do- we'll talk with the trainer, explain our concerns, and see what he says. As others have pointed out, it just isn't worth the potential risk to ourselves or Senta.
by Abby Normal on 12 July 2011 - 18:07
IMO the essence of this is that this situation is that the setting is a group obedience class. My interpretation of that is that some of these classes have young dogs being socialised and learning how to walk nicely on lead, sit, stay, come etc., nice manners. The higher you go, the higher the level of obedience and maybe competition if you are interested in it.
An aggressive dog should be offered help, with the right trainer, and I believe that very few trainers of obedience/general dog training classes have the ability to deal with it, whilst there are other trainers who specialise in it. I believe that sometimes a trainer does not want to acknowledge that they do not have the skill set to deal with aggressive dogs, and so front it out and play it by ear, to the detriment of the aggressive dog, and of others whose dogs are there for the reasons set out previously.
All down to time, place and trainer.
An aggressive dog should be offered help, with the right trainer, and I believe that very few trainers of obedience/general dog training classes have the ability to deal with it, whilst there are other trainers who specialise in it. I believe that sometimes a trainer does not want to acknowledge that they do not have the skill set to deal with aggressive dogs, and so front it out and play it by ear, to the detriment of the aggressive dog, and of others whose dogs are there for the reasons set out previously.
All down to time, place and trainer.
by brynjulf on 12 July 2011 - 18:07
Laura, the bottom line is that you need to do what you are comfortable. Talk to the trainer, explain your concerns. Maybe he doesnt see the problem ( that may sound nuts but I often groom dogs that other groomers are scared of and I dont see the dog as a problem. The more dogs you handle and train you become desensitized to things that at one time would have made you pee your pants. ) To the trainer this may not seem like an issue. But if you feel threatened then definately bring up the issue! Senta will be picking up your stress as well. If you are in an environment that makes you uncomfortable you will have a hard time learning. Not fair to you or Senta :) it's your dog and your dime do what is best for you :) We can all give advice but each of us has different life experiences. I have a rediculas fear of Rottweilers, therefore i do not train them. I have been bitten, mauled and badly injured by several. Guess what even the good ones sense my terror and will bite me. A dog that would never bite WILL bite me. Why? Because of my terror. ( I am not afraid, i'm terrified) However if that same snapping snarling beast is a Shep, Mal or Dobie no fear at all.... The difference? MY perception of the situation. The trainer may not see mr. bitey pants as an issue, your hubby isnt upset by the same situation. rambling I know. Time for a nap :) Hope that makes some sense.
by DogisGood on 12 July 2011 - 19:07
Laura- was the trainer bleeding? May be something completely different from what I was picturing. LOL sometimes things come across differently in print. I interpreted this as the trainer pretty much got mauled. If he just got nipped, and the dog was mostly just being noisy, I might recommend just sitting away from it in the future.
by Ruger1 on 12 July 2011 - 21:07
VonIsengard...Hope you don't mind me bragging on you...: )
I just can't help it...;)
by VonIsengard on 14 July 2011 - 03:07
Not at all, Deanna, it's nice to feel appreciated now and again. 
Laura, would you feel more comfortable if the dog were muzzled? This is not an unreasonable request and you should certainly voice your concerns to the trainer.
Laura, would you feel more comfortable if the dog were muzzled? This is not an unreasonable request and you should certainly voice your concerns to the trainer.
by steve1 on 15 July 2011 - 08:07
You do not put a Biter in a training class in any shape or form this teaches bad habits to other dogs Upsets the other dogs and people. If i was there i would tell the Owner of the Dog and the Trainer to get it off the Field, if both refused i would ask the other Handlers there to walk off because the Work place is unsafe for dogs and humans, Now some will feel the same way so off they will go The Trainer will not like losing customers in volume, In Fact HE is a POOR trainer and i would certainly not be bothering with him after his attitude with the biter and his lack of concern for the safty of the people and dogs on the work field
NO' you are not a Whiner give the Bugger it straight out and say it that you mean every word
NO' you are not a Whiner give the Bugger it straight out and say it that you mean every word
by laura271 on 18 July 2011 - 17:07
Here's an update:
I went to class this weekend and asked that we talk about what happened at the previous class as a group (owner of the biter included). I prefer open discussion when conflict is involved. I explained that I felt uncomfortable with the aggressiveness of the other dog and that I hadn't signed up for a group obedience class to get bit. The trainer was very surprised that I was concerned and I felt he brushed off my concerns and just wanted to start class. My husband, who very rarely speaks, said that more discussion was needed. (Ok- "mute guy" wants to talk so it must be important.) The trainer clearly didn't understand why we were concerned (after all, he was the person who got bit and he doesn't have a problem with the dog), that the dog was doing much better, and that he was in a group obedience class to learn. In answer to DogisGood's question- the dog isn't just a noisy nipper- he seriously wants to bite anything he perceives as a threat to him or his owner. However, he is a smaller breed dog (mix?) and I think that people tend to view them differently than larger breed biters.
I think brynjulf's comment above really captures what's going on for the trainer ("The more dogs you handle and train you become desensitized to things that at one time would have made you pee your pants.") - a biting dog is no big deal for him. The other person that was in class last week didn't speak up and avoided eye contact so I assume it was only an issue for me. The trainer then demonstrated that the dog only attacks if you look at him (apparently, he used to attack all people/dogs if they came within range) so we should be fine if we don't look at the dog and we keep Senta out of range of him. My husband feels like we are learning a lot (and we are) and wants to finish our course and to just keep a wary eye on the biter. Me? If you can recommend a good, professional obedience trainer in the Kitchener, Ontario area (within about an hour's drive) then please PM me.
Laura
I went to class this weekend and asked that we talk about what happened at the previous class as a group (owner of the biter included). I prefer open discussion when conflict is involved. I explained that I felt uncomfortable with the aggressiveness of the other dog and that I hadn't signed up for a group obedience class to get bit. The trainer was very surprised that I was concerned and I felt he brushed off my concerns and just wanted to start class. My husband, who very rarely speaks, said that more discussion was needed. (Ok- "mute guy" wants to talk so it must be important.) The trainer clearly didn't understand why we were concerned (after all, he was the person who got bit and he doesn't have a problem with the dog), that the dog was doing much better, and that he was in a group obedience class to learn. In answer to DogisGood's question- the dog isn't just a noisy nipper- he seriously wants to bite anything he perceives as a threat to him or his owner. However, he is a smaller breed dog (mix?) and I think that people tend to view them differently than larger breed biters.
I think brynjulf's comment above really captures what's going on for the trainer ("The more dogs you handle and train you become desensitized to things that at one time would have made you pee your pants.") - a biting dog is no big deal for him. The other person that was in class last week didn't speak up and avoided eye contact so I assume it was only an issue for me. The trainer then demonstrated that the dog only attacks if you look at him (apparently, he used to attack all people/dogs if they came within range) so we should be fine if we don't look at the dog and we keep Senta out of range of him. My husband feels like we are learning a lot (and we are) and wants to finish our course and to just keep a wary eye on the biter. Me? If you can recommend a good, professional obedience trainer in the Kitchener, Ontario area (within about an hour's drive) then please PM me.
Laura
by Nans gsd on 18 July 2011 - 20:07
Yep Laura I agree with you, move on. I am sure you can find another trainer or even wait and go to this peson's next class, hopefully the biter will be gone. Best of luck Nan
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