Does Pannus run in the Eichenluft dogs? - Page 5

See I don't even know if I wanna get involved with all this drama at trials and clubs or even some people ... so much for my plan on a family membership with my son.  I personally think that's the hardest part to getting involved ... is it good for you, or not. I wish there was a club around minus all this drama for the kids sakes, because these two below are a mighty fine team.... Darn it. 

Our club welcomes juniors with open arms. We do NOT fight, squabble, or waste time with politics, cliques, bad-mouthing others, etc. We get together for one common cause: to train our dogs. Yeah, we like each other, get together outside training in two's and three's occasionally, maybe share some munchies and lift a glass, but everyone is welcome at Bosen Kinder.

Oh yeah: Cutsy-wutsy "My Dog" stories cost a buck apiece, donation to the club kitty. LOL

SS

CEPH, first off SLANDER is verbal,LIABLE is when it's in print. Then it would only had been LIABLE had i stated a falsehood. I did not. I asked a question. Secondly, why be secretive about it? So it could be kept quiet if it were true? I prefer things honest and above board. And for anyone claiming righteous indignation on this board is comical.

As Molly stated in the third person:                   

"Molly has no  problem answering questions and assumptions - you're right Don it's better to have it right out there in public eye.  I have nothing to hide, everything about me and my program, my dogs is public knowledge.  Nothing to hide.  I just wish people wouldn't listen to the trolls who do contact them privately, or post on this board, and assume that what they say is true without actually asking around and finding out if it is or not.  If anyone hears something negative about a breeder, ask the breeder or those who know the breeder first, do some research on your own if you are interested in finding what is true or not, don't just assume the rumors are truth just because someone says so."

I'll go through and respond line by line to what she has to say in her post. 1)She agrees not to do it in private. 2)I did not asusume anything was true that's why I looked for the info. on here and searches on other boards,ie. http://www.gsdworld.net/invboard/index.php?showtopic=5102&hl=pannus of which Molly is on this topic. I did talk to the only 2 people that I know, that know her. The first said yes that Kougar has it and that they heard the same about his mother. The second had done a breeding to Molly's stud. Other issues were mentioned but no Pannus.  Again as I have already stated and shown I did the reasearch. So after all that info. I had just apiece of the pie. So the next logical step would be to ask if their are others out there with progeny with this problem. I'd and it gave any the opportunity to respond including the breeder.

Molly stated: "If anyone hears something negative about a breeder, ask the breeder or those who know the breeder first." THAT'S WHERE THE U.S. BREEDERS OF THIS BREED DIFFER FROM THE GERMANS. YOU THINK THIS IS SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT YOU. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LINE. NO ONE SAID MOLLY HAS PANNUS. THE GERMANS I'VE TALKED WITH HAVE ALL BEEN FORTH COMMING ABOUT THEIR LINES AND ANY ISSUES WITH THEM BE IT HEALTH OR WHAT THEIR DOGS WEAK POINTS MAY BE. IT SEEMS HERE THAT THE BREEDERS WANT EVERYTHING HUSH, HUSH SO IT DOESN'T EFFECT THE DOLLARS COMMING IN. FOLKS THAT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR "THE BETTERMENT OF THE BREED"

Also I still have not gotten enough info. to come to a conclussion as to what is true. At the time I looked at the ped for Kougar it had 1 comment and his owner said he others in the line had Pannus. On this post his breeder siad he may have buty momma and grandma didn't. On the other board Molly talks about a couple of her females that had Pannus. Yet with the 30some posts on this topic here NOT ONE PERSON WITH A DOG DOWN FROM THIS LINE HAS COME FORWARD AND SAID "NO MY DOG DOESN'T HAVE PANNUS". Where are all the offspring from those 30 litters?

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LINE.

BS.

THAT'S WHERE THE U.S. BREEDERS OF THIS BREED DIFFER FROM THE GERMANS.   Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha    Surely you JEST!?

NOT ONE PERSON WITH A DOG DOWN FROM THIS LINE HAS COME FORWARD AND SAID "NO MY DOG DOESN'T HAVE PANNUS".   OK. I have, and have had quite a few dogs (say 25?) from the same foundation lines as many of Molly's dogs. (Fero, Harro, Lord, Xento...) So...  I'll be the FIRST to say it: "In 20+ years of importing, breeding and training dogs, I have never even seen a single case of pannus, in any of my dogs or any other dogs from "our" bloodlines. Do you think I would have bred me best producing female to Eagle if I hadn't done my homework?

Where are all the offspring from those 30 litters?  You're kidding, right? Anybody here wanna list the location and details of every puppy they ever produced here for some person who just wants to stir up trouble for a single individual they don't happen to care for? Be my guest! 

Let's see... 30 litters x say, an average of five pups per litter, = roughtly 150 pups.  1-2 unhappy owners = roughly 99% satisfied owners. I can live with that. 

SS

SS you state: "If the title of this thread wasn't meant to be an overt attack on Molly, fully intended to discredit her breeding program and get her dander up, I don't know what would be."

I have no ax to grind with Molly. She and I have never had words. As a matter of fact I, at this point don't have anything done from her lines. So it wasn't anything malicious. I had heard from a number of people cougar was a good hard dog. So I could get something off him if he was being bred or something that produce him or close to it in lines. Hence the interest.

 I've seen similar threads on this forum about faults and defects that people have heard run in certain lines from certain breeders. It just so happens that these were all lines from breeders in Germany. It's funny NO ONE had a problem with questioning those lines/breeders.... FOLKS THIS ISN'T A POPULARITY CONTEST IT'S ABOUT THE DOGS AND MAKING SURE YOU END UP WITH THE BEST POSSIBLE GSD.

When it comes right down to it if you don't like the way I went about getting the info. I was looking for DEAL WITH IT. You cry babies on the forum think that  ANY POST that asks a question about your friends has to be attacked. This sewing circle is a joke. You can tell by how the posts go. If theres a post about training,lines... it get's less than 100 views and 2 or 3 responses, but if it's a post like, "LOOK HOW PRETTY MY LONG COAT IS" or " FLUFFY'S POOH WAS LIME GREEN TODAY" you people can't stop posting on it.

When I was new to the dog world, the first serious advice I ever got was -  you will be everyone's buddy until you own your first really good dog. After that it all goes downhill.

When wanting to know about a line from a kennel it is always best to give the kennel/breeder the opportunity to answer any questions you have.  Pannus is not always genetic in nature. I sent a  trained dog to Saudi  and the sand and wind caused it to develop this condition.  

The general consesus is this post was wrong and I agree ,no purpose served but to start mess on someones breeding. What is sad is that the breeders pay the price defending rumors  not the poster who has nothing to lose. 

Marlene AlabamaK9

at this point don't have anything done from her lines.

So what, and WHOSE lines DO you have? I'm pretty knowledgeable about bloodlines. I'd be happy to assist you, just as I do anyone else who requests input.

SS

Ramgsd - first of all, you should ask more than two BIASED people about my lines before coming to any conclusions.  Ok?  Second, I said ONE female of mine (not "several") had Pannus, I also said she developed it at 11 years old and it was not "genetic" as she did not develop it as a young dog and never reproduced it.   Got it?  Don't skew the information given to you.

molly

My 12 year old female doesn't have pannus. She has cancer. We're not worried about genetic aspects. Point made.