"Tiffany / Wal-Mart" breeding - Page 6

D.H.  Once again, Thank You. 

Doright, they are not for sale for 2-3 hundred because they are worth more! K9 does not care if teeth are missing, ears are not up, testicles are not down. Why should I let a perfectly good dog go for a couple of hundred when K9 gives me 25hundred? If the dog is unsuitable for sport, he might excell at agility, flyball, service dog, or 'just' companion dog. Why is someone not willing to spend more? I have not seen an answer to that question yet. If a family or person needs to save 3 years to afford a 15hundred dollar dog, that person should not get a dog period. Vaccinations, spay/neuter, an accident, a swallowed ball or bone, eaten the wrong plant, got bit by the mean neighbors dog, bit the neighbors dog and now you need to pay for his vet bills... how do you suppose that is going to work if someone cannot even come up with 15 hundred now? When really good homes came along I have reduced price for a spay/neuter, no question. If I see people make the effort and go for value not cost. 
Look at that car warranty and look at that fine print and read about all the things that are NOT covered. I do have a problem with prices when people plop down hundreds of bucks so easily for vain and unnecessary 'luxury' items, and lots of them. You are trying to tell me that the average middle class person/family that owns a nice car, TV, computer, Ipod, cell phone, skate board, designed clothes, etc cannot save up for a dog? And then whine about not being able to afford a quality "pet". Rubbish! 
If it is just a pet they'd really want, there are lots of options to the shelters. Lots of rescues who have dogs in quality foster homes and many of these dogs make great pets. Rescue does not just take in mis-fits. Breeders get pups back all the time because their buyers life changes, from jobs to houseing to divorce to new kids to it did not grow up to match the wishful thinking to whatever. Nothing wrong with many of these dogs but unrealistic irresponsible and fill in all sort of blanks here buyers.

What people actually want in real life though is that special somethinsomethin, its not just about a dog. Never about just a dog. As a breeder I love my dogs and I have a special one that is more pet than anything. But as a breeder I also pick and choose and let go of what mis-fits my personal concept. A non-pick-of-the-litter for me does not make it a mis-fit for the next person. Well bred dogs and well bred litter should be mostly uniform as a litter and therefore there should not be too many mis-fits. The puppy that goes into a pet home receives the exact same care as my pick pup. The pup that has a minor flaw such as too much hair, one testicle etc still receives the same quality of preparation, and then execution and care in breeding and raising the litter. Why should such a mis-fit be any less valueable? Anser me that question please. On the contrary. There are many breeds where show and pet are sold for the same price. Interestingly coated GSD pups often sell for more in Germany than regular coated pups because they are so popular with the pet homes. For breeders of coated GSDs the pups out of the new top dogs are very much sought after. Lots of breeds where there are no titles, just companion value and their puppy buyers appreciate that and happily pay for it. Does not make them lesser dogs, lesser owners. Its the quality of the dog. You either value it or you do not. A dog that did not turn out to be the top show stopper has its value. Its ok that the pet owner thinks his dog is worth a million bucks but a breeder cannot charge that, hmmm....
On the one hand people talk about love and companionship. If its just that that you want then you do not need to look for a breed, you need to look for a dog that captures your heart. The moment you look for that special somethinsomethin then you are kidding yourself about "just" wanting love and companionship, or just a good dog. Most mutts are great dogs, most pets in the millions of households out there are great dogs. What you want is that trophy dog just like the trophy wife, trophy kids that go to Harvard, trophy car in your garage, the trophy laptop, Ipod, golf membership. Why does it have to be a pet out of a VA parent then? Leave those to the breeders and stop arguing, get your 200 dollar mis-fits and hope it makes you happy and looks good enough at the end of the leash. But then you will not have the conversation piece of "of course he is a handsome boy, his father is World Champion, or a VA, or BSP competitor, or, or, or" and your chest swells with pride as you say it. This is double standard at its best. Like freedom of speech...but politically correct please. Thank you. :O)

animules, you are very welcome :O)

I think I've seen similar arguments elsewhere...i.e. tiny dogs cost a lot, and people want them for cheap or free, etcetera. Fact is, when you dig deeper into this argument, it's just a question of why can't you buy something you can't afford, and I think that is as obvious as it gets...

I also thank you D.H..  You made my point as you were making yours.

To reiterate, I do not have a problem with someone paying 60,000 for a dog.  It's their money.  I also do not have a problem with someone asking 60,000 for their dog.  It's their dog.  I also believe that a fool and his money are soon parted (as the saying goes).

Alll I am saying is that if Joe Blow breeds two litters of GSD's every year and sells his pups for three hundred each, and his parent dogs are just AKC and that is it.  No titles, no OFA, etc.  Then Joe Blow is looked upon as if he is the scum of the earth.  But Joe Blow might actually be supplying families with GSD's at affordable prices, might be spaying and neutering his pups before they are sold, might be taking very good care of his breeders and his pups before they leave his care, might be socializing and preparing his pups for a family better than Mr. Smith, might just know more than Mr. Smith who has multi-titled breeders with all kinds of test results through six different organizations and finally, just might be producing better or as good, GSD's at a reasonable price (reasonable for some and cheap for others).  There is a place in this world for the Mercedes and for the Ford Focus.

We at least do agree (although for different reasons) that if someone has to save up for a puppy, then they probably should not have one.  If you do not understand my reason for that statement, then I have wasted my time thus far.  But, of course, I did not expect to win this discussion anyway.  I am spitting against the wind as I am on a web site that is almost entirely populated by those that chase titles, sell GSD puppies for thousands and think that the "other guy" is not doing his training, breeding, socializing, business, etc, the way it SHOULD be done.

Produce your puppies and sell them to K9 for 25 hundred and God Bless you.  I am glad for you and them.  Some will produce their puppies and sell them for 3 hundred to families and God Bless them also.  You will call "them" a BYB and they will ignore you.  Just one question though and then I am done.

Why do you (and everyone else "out there") breed? Hmmm

I tend not to label other breeders, in fact I do not care what others do and how they do it. I care about what I do. I do not object to breeding without titles, I know how hard it is in the US to do so. In Germany you are left without choice in that matter. It becomes automatic, you accept it. I do believe in a quality

oops, hit a wrong button here :o)

I do believe in a quality

Good job, DH.

I think someone who saves for a dog might be someone who has a sizable savings account too, even if they are not wealthy.  Some people are thrifty that way, and can well afford vet bills if they happen.  These people don't follow the popular trend of disposable anything, and put money in savings every month towards any possible emergencies.  That used to be the norm, rather than the exception, when I was a kid.  Now I've dated myself, LOL.