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by Two Moons on 08 August 2013 - 23:08
Yeah but it sure is now that you told us.......LOL
by desert dog on 09 August 2013 - 00:08
Deanna, before this started happening have you been spending as much time working him. I don't see the following you growling as the same thing as the reaction you get when approaching him. He sounds to me to be a frustrated dog due to no mental stimulation. I just wonder if you are challenging him enough mentally. But physical exhaustion and mental exhaustion are two different things a dog needs. If he don't get both he will find a outlet for both. Out of frustration. Just a thought.
Hank
Hank
by Ruger1 on 09 August 2013 - 00:08
Hank,,We have had a ton of change here at home in the last 4 months,,Daughter are teens with boyfriends that do not know when to go home so Prince has been created a lot more during family time..~~he hates being created and left out~~Also, I have been working more and have not nearly spent the quality time with Prince that I did..Things were starting to calm and as the smoke cleared I found this staring me in the face.,,
by Slamdunc on 09 August 2013 - 00:08
Deanna,
Your last post addresses some of the questions that I had about prince and the household. Years ago, I owned a moody, handler aggressive, people aggressive, dog aggressive, SOB of a tough GSD. I may have told you about him. That dog loved me every morning and was not friendly at night. I will send you a detailed message tomorrow. I just got home from dinner at a really nice restaurant with about 300 beers on tap.................Now is not the best time to elaborate on aggressive dogs.
Your last post addresses some of the questions that I had about prince and the household. Years ago, I owned a moody, handler aggressive, people aggressive, dog aggressive, SOB of a tough GSD. I may have told you about him. That dog loved me every morning and was not friendly at night. I will send you a detailed message tomorrow. I just got home from dinner at a really nice restaurant with about 300 beers on tap.................Now is not the best time to elaborate on aggressive dogs.
by Ruger1 on 09 August 2013 - 01:08
Jim,,lol..Get some rest!!!,,,
I have noticed that he is different at night when I return home from work,,~ about 12am, but thought it was my imagination...Talk with ya tomorrow,,;)
I have noticed that he is different at night when I return home from work,,~ about 12am, but thought it was my imagination...Talk with ya tomorrow,,;)
by Sunsilver on 09 August 2013 - 10:08
AHA!. And now the light goes on!Hank,,We have had a ton of change here at home in the last 4 months,,Daughter are teens with boyfriends that do not know when to go home so Prince has been created a lot more during family time..~~he hates being created and left out~~Also, I have been working more and have not nearly spent the quality time with Prince that I did..Things were starting to calm and as the smoke cleared I found this staring me in the face.,,
PS- it's spelled 'crated'. "Created" is what happened at the start of the book of Genesis' "and God created heaven and earth"... Also, Ruger has been crating her dog too much, and has CREATED a problem!
by Ruger1 on 09 August 2013 - 10:08
Sunliver,,That's funny.!!.Genneis is on my mind because of all the Bible reading and praying I've been doing over this!!..lol,,Yes, my crating has CREATED a problem...It certainly has not helped it any....
by Keith Grossman on 09 August 2013 - 11:08
I've been following this thread with interest as I have some experience with a similar issue and have done a lot of research on the subject so I thought I'd throw my $.02 into the conversation as food for thought. Please keep in mind that the ideas I am adding have been found to be true for some dogs and may or may not be related to what you are seeing with Prince.
The first assumption often made, and it isn't an unreasonable one, is that you are dealing with a dominance aggression issue. It makes sense to consider this possibility first as you have a large, strong, intact, male dog who is reaching social and physical maturity. An issue like this under these circumstances is not uncommon. But what if that isn't it?
Your description of Prince raising his hackles indicates to me that you might be dealing with an anxiety issue in which the dog perceives something as a threat that really isn't. In a weaker, less confident dog, this wouldn't be as much of an issue since that dog is likely to make every attempt to avoid the offending stimulus. A stronger, more self-confident dog is more likely to become confrontational resulting in a potentially dangerous situation.
I agree that neutering the dog is unlikely to have much affect on his behavior. The good news is that most of the advice you have been given so far is valid despite whether this is actual dominance aggression or fear/anxiety based...with one exception. Everything that has been said about not letting the dog on the bed or other furniture, restoring your NILIF policies and making the dog defer to you for everything is valid. When I say make the dog defer to you, that means he doesn't get to tell you when he wants attention, he doesn't get to go up or down a flight of stairs ahead of you, he doesn't get to go through a door in front of you (in fact, he should be made to sit or down at the door until you go through it and he then only gets to follow you when you release his sit or down), etc. The exception is the use of physical correction or a, "come to Jesus meeting." While that may be effective for a dog with dominance aggression, it will serve only to reinforce the threat for the dog in the case of a fear/anxiety related disorder and tell him that he was right and whatever it was he felt was dangerous really is.
Finally, since it's recently been brought up, I'd like to mention the pattern you and others have mentioned as it relates to the dog being a different dog in the morning than at night. There is a very valid chemical reason for this. When he first awakens in the morning, as is true with virtually all mammals, his levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter thought to contribute to feelings of well-being and happiness are at their highest. During the day, serotonin levels drop off as it is metabolized and eventually becomes a precursor for melatonin production as light levels drop toward the end of the day. The decrease in serotonin levels over the course of the day affects some dogs (and people) differently than others. Serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SRI's) is a class of drugs widely used to treat various conditions in humans including depression and anxiety disorders and has shown promise in use with some dogs exhibiting out-of-context aggression as well.
Hope this helps and good luck with your future success with Prince!
The first assumption often made, and it isn't an unreasonable one, is that you are dealing with a dominance aggression issue. It makes sense to consider this possibility first as you have a large, strong, intact, male dog who is reaching social and physical maturity. An issue like this under these circumstances is not uncommon. But what if that isn't it?
Your description of Prince raising his hackles indicates to me that you might be dealing with an anxiety issue in which the dog perceives something as a threat that really isn't. In a weaker, less confident dog, this wouldn't be as much of an issue since that dog is likely to make every attempt to avoid the offending stimulus. A stronger, more self-confident dog is more likely to become confrontational resulting in a potentially dangerous situation.
I agree that neutering the dog is unlikely to have much affect on his behavior. The good news is that most of the advice you have been given so far is valid despite whether this is actual dominance aggression or fear/anxiety based...with one exception. Everything that has been said about not letting the dog on the bed or other furniture, restoring your NILIF policies and making the dog defer to you for everything is valid. When I say make the dog defer to you, that means he doesn't get to tell you when he wants attention, he doesn't get to go up or down a flight of stairs ahead of you, he doesn't get to go through a door in front of you (in fact, he should be made to sit or down at the door until you go through it and he then only gets to follow you when you release his sit or down), etc. The exception is the use of physical correction or a, "come to Jesus meeting." While that may be effective for a dog with dominance aggression, it will serve only to reinforce the threat for the dog in the case of a fear/anxiety related disorder and tell him that he was right and whatever it was he felt was dangerous really is.
Finally, since it's recently been brought up, I'd like to mention the pattern you and others have mentioned as it relates to the dog being a different dog in the morning than at night. There is a very valid chemical reason for this. When he first awakens in the morning, as is true with virtually all mammals, his levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter thought to contribute to feelings of well-being and happiness are at their highest. During the day, serotonin levels drop off as it is metabolized and eventually becomes a precursor for melatonin production as light levels drop toward the end of the day. The decrease in serotonin levels over the course of the day affects some dogs (and people) differently than others. Serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SRI's) is a class of drugs widely used to treat various conditions in humans including depression and anxiety disorders and has shown promise in use with some dogs exhibiting out-of-context aggression as well.
Hope this helps and good luck with your future success with Prince!
by Ruger1 on 09 August 2013 - 11:08
Keith,,I don't mind at all sharing my Prozac with Prince!!!...All kidding aside I am thinking about your post,,,Prince is a hard booger to figure out..I have never seen him run from anything or anyone ever, but I have had a sense that certain situations do make him appear slightly anxious,,Not fearful, but anxious,,I feel there is a difference,,Maybe I am wrong, but this is my perspective..With all do respect this is what you felt Axel suffered with is it not?...
by Keith Grossman on 09 August 2013 - 12:08
Yes, Deanna, it is and again, all of these dogs come from closely related bloodlines so I suspect there is probably a genetic component.
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