animal cruelty ? - Page 7

olskoolgsds  -- your post is still there; it is on page 2

"I had posted a lengthy message that basically confronted the animal cruelty folks, the animal rights folks and the Humane Society and all of the orginizations like this that have gone way over the top and are the biggest force out there bent on having our rights taken away as well as creating a new mindset on a dogs role in mans life.

Not surprising to me, my post was pulled. I guess those that desire to dictate to us how we are to "love" and "care" for our dogs also will not allow any disenting opinions. Since these groups are seeking complete control, it makes perfect sense to pull any thing that attacks their hidden agenda."

What a ridiculous accusation.  Your post was not pulled.  Why would you say something like that unless you're the one with an agenda?  Why would you lie like that about this board?

Tess --  I'm sure he was not lying -- with this "new format" he probably just got on the wrong page.

 

olskooldogs, I remember back when I was very new to this board, you accused me of supporting PETA, and being kennel blind, neither of which were true. (It's rather hard to be kennel blind when you've never bred dogs, and don't have a kennel...LOL!)

No harm, no foul. I've long since forgiven you for it, and actually laugh about it, but I just wanted to suggest that you check your facts more carefully before posting.

It is VERY rare for posts to be pulled on this board, and it's usually only done if the post is a personal attack, or is very offensive. Your post was neither of those (okay the language was a little heated), and actually expresses exactly what is happening re. animal and owner rights in the States. Most of the people on this board are well aware of what's going on, and would have no reason to report your post.

Some may disagree re. dogs and their ability to feel pain, but since we don't know exactly what a dog is feeling, that's a matter of personal opinion more than anything else. I'll say this, though. When I was trying to get my bitch into my SUV after her second major surgery in 2 days (the vet botched her spay, and she was bleeding internally) I asked the vet to help me lift her. She took one look at him and jumped in on her own!  This was probably about 15 minutes after coming out from under the anesthetic. (What can I say...I live in a hick town where the vet clinic doesn't have overnight staff to monitor postop cases.  The animals get sent home as soon as they're able to walk!)

Nope, they're NOT the same as humans.

Yea i would have to agree that dogs...animals feel pain but in a different way as in they are a lot more tougher then we are or so many of them would be droping off the face of the earth after being hurt. My own dog for instance.He had a surgery but it was way after when he should have.He had swallowed a chicken bone and it didn't pass though the right way.It scewered through his intestines.He had to be in pain.Any  person would be hunched over crying like a baby.He for some time didn't show that anything was wrong till he stopped eating.I took him to my vet/boss and we took xrays.He said lets see if it passes.Gave him food he threw it up.Again took xrays.It never moved.After the first time of doing surgery we should have done surgery.Long story short....with all that my dog went though he should have been whining or something and he was such a trooper. He did die a few days after surgery but only cause the vet...yes my boss at the time...didn't do the right thing by flushing out the abdomen of all the infection.So the antibiotics couldn't fight it. So animals do feel pain but have a much higher tolerance for it then we do. At the vet clinic there was a Lab pup that came in with the skin of it's shoulder missing from getting it taken off going through a fence.at least 6in by 6 in missing.You could see the muscels that the skin ounce covered.It acted like nothing happened. I know I would be screaming in pain!!!
FWIW
~L~

Of course they feel pain -- they just react differently to pain; withdrawal, not eating, etc.

Well, I can't say I think it is cruelty, I myself have been around many "Old School" farmers who casterate their own animals, pigs, calves, sheep, goats, dogs and cats with no anesthesia!  It looked painful to me!!  But I also understand what it would cost to have a vet out to casterate 20 calves!  I am guilty of doing as much as possible for my dogs and horses before we call in the vet.  I live in the country and I have been raised around farmers who do their own, would I operate on my dog, no I would probably loose my kibbles!!  lol  I think that some people are very experienced and can do fine for their animals, I would never question the old farmers, because they have been around it for decades, not to mention they would probably take me around the barn and whip my tail!!  Infection can happen to anyone!  I myself have treated my animals on my own alot before I called the vet, barbed wire cuts, lameness, colic...  I unfortunately have seen horses shot rather than put to sleep comfortably, would I do it NO WAY!!!  I think it is just a way of life for some folks and I'm sure it wasn't the first time either...

Just my opinion,
Lizzy 

Yes, I missed my post cause I do not come on much any more, not the first time nor will it be the last time I put my foot in my mouth.  I do not come on much any more because I am obviously opposed to anything that I believe is going to lead to the desolation of working dogs. 

Sun, I do not remember calling you "kennel blind" but I am not saying it did not happen, I would have to know the context in which I said it.

As far as feeling pain, obviously dogs and all animals feel pain, it does not stop them from functioning as profoundly as it does us.  I often have had to isolate a dog in tight quarters to keep them from running around like nothing happened after surgery.

  I could take lots of time to get into this, but I think one of the sad things I see in this country is that we have humanized (can't think of the word for it) animals and dogs especially.  We have turned them into couch potatoes, over weight, bred the drive out of them, deprived them of living a " TRULY" happy life through the usefulness that their breed was bred to do.  We have IMO gone so far over board with cruelty laws, training, culling and many things that made our dogs stronger for their given job.

My female ran down the road with me a while back.  She tore a pad on her foot.  I was leaving town so I took her to the only vet open.  The vet insisted she needed to do major repair work on her, needed to try and save the peeled back pad, putting a leg cast on her and a ton of other nonsense IMO.

When I got back to town I took her to my vet and showed her all this STUFF on the dog.  My vet asked me what I would do.  I said if I was back on the farm I would have cut the loose pad off, sterolized it, kept it clean for a few days and that is all.  She said, "good, that's exactly what I am going to do".  Dog was fine, the hardest thing was convincing her she needed to lay low a few days.  Again, I will say that animals do not react to pain as we do, and it does not bring about the same response in them.  Anyone that has taken their dog in for surgery such as being spayed knows they are wanting to get back into their routine in no time. Not quite like us humans.  I have often doctored my own animals and it has not back fired to date, not saying it might not, but this IMO insane obsession with Vets, etc is sad.  Do you know you cannot take your dogs to an AKC event and have a prong collar on them?  There will be a day in our country when what we take for granted today, will not be so.  Over the top cruelty laws are always just peoples interpretation and sadly the folks that tend to join these groups are far over the top bleeding hearts that do not have a clue what real love is. 

I get this crap from my neighbor who has two Goldens.  Female is severly displastic, weighs 110 lbs. by his own admission.  This dog lives out her life in the house.  Yet he says I am  cruel to my dogs because I am out working them in the cold etc.  He is an avid animal rights activists and he is not alone.

Lastly, I want to apologize to Tess!  I am sincerely sorry for blasting you, and you two Sun if I did.  It has never been my intention to be rude or mean spirited on this site.  I have my passions and dogs are one of them, I need to know my limitations however.

olskooldogs, it was a looong time ago, and you didn't know me. As I said, all is forgiven, and I understand where you're coming from. If the AR people have their way, either we won't have any dogs left (PETA), or they'll all have the character and temperment of lap dogs (most of the other AR groups.)   

Good to see you posting!