14 month old American girl - Page 7

If I'm interpreting correctly, it also makes sense to me why American fronts have "superior" reach (not counting loose ligaments).

Well, I would call it more extreme reach rather than superior. Superior, to me, would be whatever allows the GSD to perform hour after hour, all day long. The extremes are a result of us show folks and I really doubt would hold up in a dog that had to herd in real life.

best,
Rik

Indeed, that's why superior was put in quotation marks :)

Generally, the American dogs have good length of upper arm even if the angle of the shoulder is very open. You will often see very steep scapulas in the American dog--which is far less common in the Euro GSD. Together, the length of scapula and length upper arm combined with an overly steep lay of the scapula allow for very long front reach, but the lack of correct scapula angle causes the reach to be too high and not close to the ground. In addition, the loose ligamentation that creates wobbly hocks allows for more extreme reach in front and rear--so it is inadvertently selected for when breeders select for dogs with extreme reach.

The short upper arm--often seen in Euro-bred dogs inherently creates insufficient angulation between scapula and upper arm, so even if the scapula is correct (which it typicall is), if the upper arm is too short, then the angle will be more open. (It's geometry--the upper arm has to attached to the dog's forearm which has to hit the ground and be perpendicular to the ground.)

Christine

Thanks Rik,
Thanks BlackthornGSD .... I will apply your points to check them mathematically, only for my personal perception and verification

Ibrahim, I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. :)

Fred Lanting talks about this, I believe: http://www.fredlanting.org/2008/10/front-and-rear-angulation-in-the-working-dog-2/

Christine

Thanks for the link, if I come up with something good enough I will post it, thanks for the link

I suck at geometry.  Seriously terrible at math :p

I appreciate the explanations.  I admit that my two bitches who are dry do not exhibit the reach I am *used* to, but they are not incorrect in their movement

More pictures.  Enjoy :p  The first picture is the breeder's favorite (It has been enhanced a bit, to improve sharpness, I used auto fix so it messed with the color)





This one is my favorite. I just wish I weren't in the way

How anyone could believe the American Show-line dog is "correct" in structure OR movement is beyond me.  Maybe you mean they are correct for the AKC show ring?  There is only one standard for structure and movement of the GSD.  The American dogs are far, FAR away from that standard and what the structure is meant for (trotting all day).  Not to mention the faulty temperament most of them have, lack of drive and strength of character necessary for any sort of working titles... An SV conformation judge or Koermeister would have a heart attack if one of these dogs was entered in an SV show.