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by beetree on 12 August 2013 - 15:08
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by troopscott on 12 August 2013 - 17:08
Can't we all just get along
by Pirates Lair on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
Paul said - "Very few can read a puppy and be accurate to adulthood, and all of the rest of us just guess".
I like to think that we are some of the few that can read a puppy and be accurate to adulthood, what we can't do is predict how a buyer will screw the pup up and then blame us.
For us breeding is a hobby (not a business) yet, we still appreciate being compensated for our time, expertise, vet bills etc.
Regardless of the pups genetics, the best foundation work, etc. etc. the buyer can screw up the worlds best pup with little effort.
Sometimes....just sometimes, if you pay for quality you tend to take better care of it. JMO
Kim
I like to think that we are some of the few that can read a puppy and be accurate to adulthood, what we can't do is predict how a buyer will screw the pup up and then blame us.
For us breeding is a hobby (not a business) yet, we still appreciate being compensated for our time, expertise, vet bills etc.
Regardless of the pups genetics, the best foundation work, etc. etc. the buyer can screw up the worlds best pup with little effort.
Sometimes....just sometimes, if you pay for quality you tend to take better care of it. JMO
Kim
by joanro on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
One of the ways to try to prevent a great pup from being screwed up by the buyer is to not sell it to one who is clueless. The clueless need to be educated if possible and directed to a pet they can learn with, which sometimes happen to be from a rescue.
by Pirates Lair on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
Good answer Joan!
Your theory applies to about 90% of the people on this forum. Wish I had your Crystal Ball for dog owners. LOL
Kim
Your theory applies to about 90% of the people on this forum. Wish I had your Crystal Ball for dog owners. LOL
Kim
by joanro on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
LOL@ the Crystal Ball.
by beetree on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
So much for divining and choosing clueless buyers. The point was: If the price was driven by them. It keeps being said, "Yes, since supply and demand says there are more clueless buyers out there, they must be determining the prices of such and such breeder's uber quality bred pups. Some make the statement of declaring overhead costs to justify the price. Some blame it on clueless buyers pushing the demand. I merely point out you can't have it both ways.
And the other point was, the more educated and clueless one becomes, then the discounts begin. "Whatever" you'll never get it-- to the rescue suggestion when a buyer seeks a pedigree dog from an ad inquiry. You found an "out" and an excuse that works for 90% of the breeders on here.
And the other point was, the more educated and clueless one becomes, then the discounts begin. "Whatever" you'll never get it-- to the rescue suggestion when a buyer seeks a pedigree dog from an ad inquiry. You found an "out" and an excuse that works for 90% of the breeders on here.
by vonissk on 12 August 2013 - 18:08
Hi Kim--loved the last video with the fire extinguisher--great work--thanks for sharing. Good posts both you and Joan. I don't deal with the clueless much either and yes I will refer them to a rescue. In fact when we had the 2 adult dogs for adoption the place they finally went to has a fair sized gsd/mali rescue in that town and also sometimes she has nice dogs. I asked him had he looked there and he said he had and she had nothing that suited them--so even tho they were OK people I still directed them to a rescue........I know I will sell my puppies--I try hard to get them in the right places. Bee I do agree that "normal" costs--like more washing, more ac or heat or fans, all that is absolutely not a factor. You have to pay that anyway..............I consider stud fees, worming, shots, vet checks something that yes I have to make the money to pay for. And I don't charge an arm and a leg for my pups. I'm not going to say but it's definately not 1200 with limited registration. I keep a list and what I don't sell I advertise. I prefer to sell them a little cheaper because it gives me a wider market to choose from. Also I don't take any deposits until they get their vet check at 5 weeks. I like to keep everything as smooth as possible..............By that time most want to go ahead and pay the full amount......................so that is how I do business.
by momosgarage on 12 August 2013 - 19:08
Some of the responses about "pet buyers" seem pretty contemptuous, especially coming from people who claim to be running "businesses". Doesn't sound too professional or business-like to me, in fact it sounds more like "hobby breeders", at best, breaking even or making a very small profit consistently. I wouldn't call that a businesses, especially when the OP asked for a breakdown of overhead and only got one partial answer, showing costs for things that everyone here already does for their non-breeding sport dogs . I still HAVEN'T heard a thing about tax deductions to offsets costs. Contrary to belief, real business kennels do successfully write off expenses for their breeding activities unlike "hobby breeders" I know "pet buyers" are not the primary intended client for a $3000 dog, but besides the heavy hitters like Hank, Bomber, Drago, etc, is there really a GROWING market for $2500+ German shepherds? I would guess there is not because law enforcement is switching to $800 Labradors and Malinois. In fact, I'd argue the market is actually shrinking for the $3000 GSD, due to the publics increased interest in shelter dogs, breed specific legislation targeting GSD's, the contracting wages of millennials, etc, etc, etc. I personally don't mind the prices and have some sympathy for the reasons, but I just don't see how it can last under the current economic conditions, with the lack of accessible schutzhund clubs that actually welcome newbies. Down the road, I frankly don't see many folks "of means" actually buying into the sport, let alone justifying the purchases of a sport level GSD and then realizing there is no where to train it for schutzhund.
Side story, I was at a park practicing AKC style tracking and guy runs up asking about our dogs. End of the conversation he says he used to do schutzhund, but the prices were getting out of control and he couldn't justify the cost of the dog AND the training. He then said he switched to Mondio ring because it was more exciting, the dogs were cheaper and the club was closer to his house than the schutzhund club. The Schutzhund community as a whole, effectively just lost an enthusiasts, who actually understood the commitment. Don't know if he's coming back, but I certainly don't think he is alone or in the minority. The "$2500+ sport GSD" bubble is going to burst soon, just like the housing market. Also before some "smarty pants" chimes in, just because some will survive and make good money doesn't mean the overall market is healthy and sustainable.
Side story, I was at a park practicing AKC style tracking and guy runs up asking about our dogs. End of the conversation he says he used to do schutzhund, but the prices were getting out of control and he couldn't justify the cost of the dog AND the training. He then said he switched to Mondio ring because it was more exciting, the dogs were cheaper and the club was closer to his house than the schutzhund club. The Schutzhund community as a whole, effectively just lost an enthusiasts, who actually understood the commitment. Don't know if he's coming back, but I certainly don't think he is alone or in the minority. The "$2500+ sport GSD" bubble is going to burst soon, just like the housing market. Also before some "smarty pants" chimes in, just because some will survive and make good money doesn't mean the overall market is healthy and sustainable.
by joanro on 12 August 2013 - 19:08
Bee, you made about as much sense in that last post as a jigsaw puzzle in a tornado.
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