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by Two Moons on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
by DDR-DSH on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
You need to stop lying, Sock Puppet. I know that you must be an animal rights activist or lobbyist of some sort. My guess is that you are a professional. Cleaning out scum buckets at the adult video arcade would be a more noble profession, in my opinion.
I don't sell puppies to the public, and I am not in any sort of partnership or business relationship with anyone. I have a handful of friends, and I am very picky about them. I would not have you for a friend, and if you were my son I would disown you.
The worst thing about what you are doing by fabricating and propagating these lies is that you render meaningless any relative values of moral / immoral, and ethical / unethical action. Not only is this patently unfair to me... It is unfair and an insult to anyone who has ever done anything good in their lives.. anything at all. I have done plenty of good, kind and decent things in my life, and never expected anything for it, but in hindsight, I certainly should not have.. and no one should do any good thing, if it is for the favorable opinion of anyone else.
I know who I am, and no one can take that from me. I stand willing and ready to be judged by God, but I will not accept any judgement from the likes of you. You probably don't care for my opinion, either, but the Mexican people have a beautiful way of saying it, and it is one of the lowest comments on a person's character.. "sin vergueenza".. "no shame".
by Sock Puppet on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
You again are a liar. Now crawl back in your asshole and go away.
by DDR-DSH on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
"Animal husbandry is animal husbandry and actually you're right, I do not think a 'big hearted' person can do it well."
EXACTLY!!!! This was MY problem. I used to take my surplus / unwanted dogs to a certain veterinarian quite a distance away, to have them euthanized. Not including the cost of gas and time, the cost was at least ten times the cost of taking them to the county dog 'pound, a mile away. The distance I had to come back came in handy, because I had time to cry myself out with no one watching and my tears were dry by the time I arrived back home. It was about 150 miles, round trip. Why so far? Because most of the veterinarians and their staffs were not happy to euthanize. From their point of view, I understood that most of them were "living the dream" of helping animals. It just went against every fiber in their being to euthanize a healthy dog, and most would not do it. This left the owner in a terrible dilemma, naturally. The vet who did this for me and other clients said that he felt it was a service that was needed. Amen..
But, I started to listen to the "no kill" arguments and that was a big part of my downfall. I soon ended up with a large and unsustainable kennel population. I was barely managing, but I was managing. I had plans that year to find homes for a lot of the dogs and go with a frozen semen model to conserve as much of the genetics as I could. THAT was a workable model.. But, I never got the chance to do it. The Pet NAZI's came and took all the dogs away, and then the misery and dying for those poor dogs REALLY began. The little pups which left at three days old and were relegated to a dank, damp cell with the general population had no chance. They were amoung the first to die. I really should write about it, I think. My name is now all over the internet, thanks to these AR activists and foolish breeders who are collaborating with them, probably unknowing that they are dancing with the devil, and may someday have to pay the piper.
I've been thinking about it, and I had really not long ago gotten to the point where I had washed my mind of most of this stuff and was ready to get on with what was left of my life. The mourning / grieving process over profound trauma lasts anywhere from seven to ten years, and I have been through it now twice.. once with the death of my only child, and the second time was with the death of my dogs and my dreams to "give back" to society, after a 26 year career with the phone company (which I loved). I think now that I am going to repurpose my website, tailwag.com to raise awareness about the animal rights movement and the dangers and deception they practice. I might as well.. not doing anything else with that site, anyway.
by Keith Grossman on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
"Drowning? To my mind that is incredibly inhumane. Of course I have never drowned an animal in my life."
Great! Are you publicly stating that you have never told anyone that you've "culled" using a bucket of water? That notwithstanding, you have stated several times on this forum that you cull dogs that don't meet your criteria because there aren't appropriate homes available for them. You actually brag about it and infer that breeders who place thier dogs in pet homes instead of putting them down are somehow inferior. Please share with us the criteria you use for determining a young dog doesn't make the grade and deserves to die.
"Honestly, you guys. Get a grip. Good breeders cull."
Honestly, Diane, they do not. I can not provide a single instance in my decades of experience with dogs in which any breeder I have known would put down an otherwise physically and mentally healthy young dog for no other reason than he/she wasn't a perfect example of his/her interpretation of the breed.
by hexe on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
Now, now, Keith--it's true, good breeders DO cull.... they're supposed to eliminate all but the very, very best specimens of the breed from the genepool. I'll agree with you, though, that it does not mean they should eliminate animals that are physically and mentally sound, and which they caused to be brought into the world, from *life*. One practice honors the animal and endeavors to ensure it's type thrives; the other reduces the animal to nothing more than a commodity, to be discarded for imperfections.
by DDR-DSH on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
Sock Puppet.. Mea culpa! I was wrong. You did NOT accuse me directly of drowning puppies, but the association of that allegation in the sentence immediately following the one addressing me was too close to be comfortable.
The read I get on NoCurs (Diane Jessup) is that she is an ACO I could probably see eye to eye on. She seems a little more "old school", and I have to admit that the old school was a hard school, but one that worked. We are only lately trying to reinvent humane standards and standards of practice in agriculture and animal husbandry. You know how it works.. If you think about it, everything is a matter of compromise. The more you expect, the more you will ultimately be disappointed. There are just some real hard realities about raising animals, especially dogs (who I have great respect for, as living souls). There ARE NOT enough homes for all of them.. BUT, that said, I do not believe that we should stop raising purebred dogs and I do believe in civil liberties and the right of people to try to make a living. I personally would not want to go into a business selling puppies to the public. At one time I enjoyed it a lot, but in moments of self honesty I was uncomfortable with it. I cannot easily regard dogs simply as widgets or inventory. Anyone who has looked deep into the eyes of dogs knows they have souls and are not mere inventory.
I see both sides of the argument, in most cases. Dog ownership and breeding has many ethical dilemmas. The debates rage on in forums like this, but I had my own inner debates raging for many, many years. There are many ethical issues which altogether make a "Gordian knot".. something impossible to unravel. Unwilling to apply the sword and blunt force, I finally tired of trying to work these things out. I can only say, philosophically, that nature, in her wisdom, hatches a thousand baby sea turtles so that one may ultimately live and lay a thousand eggs of it's own. We can question the "ethics" of nature, but nature has no "ethics" or ethical dilemmas. "She" is a pragmatist. Either something works, or it does not. The beauty of a free, wild sea turtle, and even the vast variety of other creatures that their young sustain.. is something breathtaking and unarguably valid.. needing no qualification of human opinion to be empirically righteous.
I suspect that it is so with our dogs.. There are many things wrong and many things right about breeding purebred dogs, or dogs for our purposes. The wrong things can be fixed, in many cases.. but not by passing draconian laws which will be enforced by unqualified and ethically / legally irresponsible people who are all too willing to cleave the knot with the sword, as a matter of expediency.
by Sam Spade on 21 July 2010 - 04:07
by Two Moons on 21 July 2010 - 04:07
Don't start with the APBT crap again.
I think some of you really don't know what breeders do, and I can promise you they would never come out and tell you how or why it is done.
Some people don't just do it for the money, it's not about keeping them all either.
Choices are made.
I think most are humane about it.
Moons.
by VonIsengard on 21 July 2010 - 04:07
NoCurs, controversial or not, its beneficial to have another serious dog person on the board and while I don't always agree with you completely, I do enjoy reading your posts.
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