BBC Dropping Crufts?; tv documentary tonight - Page 9

Bancroft, you're so busy being angry you can't see the wood for the trees. 

You put people off... any chance that there might be a meeting of minds is NEVER an option where you're concerned is it?

A great many "show bred" dogs work with the services (I've placed a few unwanted with the police myself - not mine) and they're doing a grand job too!

You talk of breeders being "smug"... take a look at what you write Bancroft... your  angry, derisory comments about "breed people"--- "everyone like to think their pet pooch will protect them... yes!  How do you know that the reality is often very different? 

I think you're a little more blinkered than practical Bancroft and that's a pity.

N

Bancroft, "we" are trying to introduce working tests (yes... I know all the "working lot" poo poo them) for our breed, the KC don't make it easy and neither do some breeders to be fair, but most are for it and it's a start.

So... don't be sad, the working ability is NOT being bred out of all "show" Shepherds.  You may not like how they look (I don't like how some of them look and move) but most of them could work... given a good handler!

Missbeeb,your posts have been a pleasure to read,well said!! Iwould like to go back to a previous post where one claims gsds are being bred with muzzles too short the tongues do not stay inside the mouth when jaws are closed!!!!  where are these dogs being bred? Did this get mentioned on the BBC programme? Also stated,they sound like freight trains!!! cia???? In 40 years of involvment with gsds i have never to this day witnessed any dog with these problems.One thing that this poster did get correct is that they know nothing of the breed in the uk.Now if you want to discuss the American gsd problems,well that's a whole different ball game.Bancroft you have a giant chip on your shoulder and do the gsd,as a whole,absolutely no favours with your blinkered attitude.  liz  

are you sure it was ice?? sorry i didn't get a really good look.

Marge, I did notice that your post was missing!!  How very odd... can you just remove other peoples posts?

Patrick

I honostly believe that 99% of show dogs aren't worht having let alon breeding with. Why? Because i'm so selective and only want the best. I also believe that from any working stock only a few percent are worth breeding with. You may redicule my vue point. No problem. But if you realy believe in your chosen breed you should at least head the warning from its founder . Who clearly stated that his breed should stay a working shepherd.  And if your fear is that, by going back to the basis, you would end up with a malinois. Chances are that you would end up with a similar type of dog. Same environment, same type of work so same type of dog. Other coloring a bit longer, bigger or smaller but basicaly the same type. That's logic. Like the Malinois,groenendaler, Laekenois, Tervuren, dutch shepherd and GSD Share the same background.

My statement aboud the judge stands. I would simply put his and my vuepoint to the test. He sais that a show dog, like shown in the program, is better and closer to the standard. Well lets take the standard and put the dog trough his pases with the standard at hand. earlier i quoted from the standard the points that were clearly against the standard of the particular dog, as shown. Let him undermine that. Than we go to the workability of the dog. Let him jump and trot and run a day or two at the pase of a working dog. He couldn't stand the straign on his hindlegs. Having had a shepherd or not has nothing to do with this opinion. That dogs hind quarters was so weak and unbalanced that any child can see that it isn't correct

Greetings

Funky Munky, I've never even heard of a Shepherd with a tongue too big for its mouth... but I know a couple of humans with the complaint!

The BBC made no mention of such a thing, as for the freight train... don't know... really don't know!

Bancroft, there should be more info on the Breed Council site, please try to be positive... little acorns and all that.

Johan, 99%!!!  It sounds a wee bit... well... Hitler-ish... are you sure?

 99%!!!  It sounds a wee bit... well... Hitler-ish... are you sure?

To my standards yes, it is even an understatement.

I need a "good" dog

Meaning

Correctly build and as close as i can get it to the image i have of my chosen breed.

Physical 100% correct and build to withstand the hardest training imaginable

Mentaly convinced that he is the strongest thing alive (except me)

Not afraid of anything

So any of these criteria will eliminate a great deal of dogs, together they eliminate most dogs as worth having. let alone breeding with.

Don't forget that people like my father and grandfather, litle guys with a common type of dog, are responsible for shaping a breed into the ultimate working dog. Even the german police uses those greyhounds, mongrels or whatever you want to call them.

Why? Through vigourusly selecting on thier working capacities these dogs live longer, are healthier etc than thier concurrents.

In theory a GSD is as good as a Malinois. Same basic structure, same background

Difference between them is that the GSD had the misfortune to have Rintin tin and became known within another crowd. The mal is seen as skitish, small nothing special, but has remained a working dog (large portions of the breed) Selection and harsh fitness demands makes that only the strongest are bred with so every generation wins or stays stable whereas when you don't have this selection every generation loses or at best is of the same level as the previous

So if you seriously want to "save" the GSD. Start working your dogs and go to thier limits and even beyond. The dogs that survive this without injuries use them for breeding.

Greetigns

Johan