Why do they breed them like this? - Page 9

You are making a collection of pictures of "ugly dogs"? I suppose all your dogs have no faults and are all champions? You realy are a nasty, small minded bunch, and those dogs whose pictures you are parading here for your own entertainment are somebodys well loved pets.  Probably only Funky Munky will understand what I mean but.......pot, kettle, black? 

I call my dog Gizmo from time to time to remind her how weird looking she is lol hahaahahaha :) (Remember gremlins? lol)

I disagree with Sunsilver's evaluation on that first gaiting dog.  He's not reaching at all.  He's lifting terribly in the front.  There is no real forward motion in that dog.  He also will finish gaiting off the pads of his feet/MAYBE the foresection of the hock.  His rear drive is tremendous, but that front doesn't match the back.  The topline is indeed terribly roached, which limits the read the dog could possibly have if it weren't for that curve in his spine.  In addition to the roach in the back, his croup is steep...he looks like he kicks up in the rear as well as lifts in the front.

missbeeb, what's going to happen next in that picture is this:

His gait may not be as extreme as this, but from the position that hind leg is in, there's no way he's going to hit the ground JUST on his pads! GSD's who gait like this do not lose all the fur on the hock, but they do develop calluses between the point of the hock and the footpads.

Xeph, good assessment.  You pinpointed what I was trying to say: he has good forward reach with the hind legs, but the front is being lifted way to high.

Could someone please comment on Gina's movement? I've never seen a dog move like that before, and I'm quite puzzled as to just what's causing it.

Zacsmum, no, my dogs are not perfect. I have a collection of pictures of dogs I like, too, both of German and American lines, both of dogs still living, and those who were champions in the past. I collect dog pictures to compare them to the standard, and try to understand just how we wound up where we are today. In other words, EXACTLY what the title of this thread says: WHY DO THEY BREED THEM LIKE THIS?

It's my effort to understand a couple of things:

Why do German Shepherds no longer look like the dogs I remember from my childhood?

Why do the dogs you see in the show ring not resemble the 'ideal' dog shown in the breed standards? And, why has even this 'ideal' dog illustrated in the standard changed in appearance so much, especially in the last few decades? How have these changes affected the dog's gait and ability to perform the tasks it was bred for?

Sniper, we used to call the gal in my sig "bat lady" and "bat ears"!  My current female has really big ears, too.

lol hahaha good one.

All dogs have foults, it is just how it is. We usually like and remember best the ones with a big foults (when refering to your own dogs).

The thing I was disagreeing with most Sunsilver, was the dog finishing on his hock (the German dog, but perhaps I misunderstood?).  Look at the photo of Tony's hock...parallel to the grass.  Look at the picture of the dog you posted....no where near Tony.  Tony's shoulder isn't the best either.  I think he wins as he does because of Jimmy.

You cannot judge these dogs based on hock callouses.  ALL of my GSDs have hock callouses, and it isn't because they gait or walk on their hocks, but natural wear and tear from sitting/laying down, and getting up on various surfaces over their lifetimes.

Two pictures of my German dog....has hock calluses, but clearly wouldn't gait on them

Two pictures of the American dog I'm currently showing.  Looks like he might gait on his hocks, but he doesn't.  Nor does he walk on them.  He's rather tightly ligamented for an American dog.

My retired half and half dog...you can see in this very picture he has hock callouses, but it's not because he walked on his hocks.

By the way, the AKC standard calls for the level back.

The issue with Gina's movement is that she has NO front!!  Her upper arm is SO short and her shoulder is SO straight she has no where to go, so she lifts up in her movement instead of out.  It's INCORRECT, inefficient, and overall ridiculous!  Way to hinder the dog.  That's not an effective sheep herder at all!

Xeph’s explanation of first dog’s gait looks good to me. As a result of badly mismatched ends, together with steep croup, most of hind drive is simply squandered upwards instead of being directed forward along a straight and far more horizontal spine, with the poor thing seemingly reaching more at air than ground! Agree too that hock calluses don’t mean much.

Standard calls for a “level” back? In that rear drive is delivered to dog’s front via the spine, it must mean a line fairly level with whatever surface the animal happens to be on - if it’s to propel itself forward in the most efficient way anyway.

Sunsilver repeats: Why do they breed them like this?
A question and a half, Silver! Do ‘they’ know themselves? Or merely what’s thought photogenic in profile or what looks attractive gaiting-wise in the show-ring or what happens to sell pups? Or maybe its just widespread ad hoc breeding ignorance?

Truth is, current Wienerau ‘model’ reached it zenith with stalwarts like Odin, Uran and Cello. And it’s often smarter to consolidate and strengthen than continuously trying to better what you’ve already got; that is, without simultaneously introducing new blood as well. Jantie mentions ‘bottleneck’ somewhere: he’s not far wrong! By forever seeking improvement we’re in all likelihood only worsening the situation.

How did we get where we are? Glib answer: Martin brothers’ Canto and Quanto, and Mutz – and with folks madly loving the Wienerau product. Leading thence to Palme, Cello, Quando, Uran and Odin - as basically all the way up to present-day VA’s. The Wienerau type hasn’t in itself changed much since the seventies/eighties - just its quality? The breed had various major turning points prior to Wienerau, and I doubt it’s ever really met up with Standard’s ideal model - as vague as it is! (More like some eternal work in progress?).

“Why do German Shepherds no longer look like the dogs I remember from my childhood?”
How often haven’t I asked the same question! I recall ‘backyard’ dogs with superior heads, less weighty and more structurally correct bodies, and with better temperaments and longevity than some of today’s breed surveyed and conformation judged, DNA-tested and ear-tattooed, multi registered/certificated, hip and elbow x-rayed, Schutzhund-graded, line-bred, veterinary-billed and club subscription paid-up pooches! Any chance we’re all being conned?


 

Xeph then why does Gina deserve to be VA1! Is it because the owner of Gina paid the SV guys! The SV is corrupt!

I happen to think that my WL pup is put toether pretty well. He is 8mo old in this pic. He is extremely agile and short coupled.  Structure is just as important for the WL as for SL.

I recall ‘backyard’ dogs with superior heads, less weighty and more structurally correct bodies, and with better temperaments and longevity than some of today’s breed surveyed

This is very good point chisum