USA Sieger Show - Page 2

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by troll on 19 May 2004 - 05:05

Roger, I think that we all agree that the politics stink. I don't care if your dog judged under Schweikert or Maier or JQ. Every time you show your dog, it should be judged for the presentation of that day and not the political strings attached. If we, the GSD enthusiasts are to put the money (and it is a costly hobby)into showing than we should get a fair judging every time we show. I agree that the politics and business side of this sport is not doing any of us any favors. We need to send a message that it is not tolerable. I don't care if it is Johaness or Schwiekert himself judging a show, we should expect and get a fair deal.

by Joanna on 19 May 2004 - 20:05

Roger. let's first examine what you have said regarding the FCI and Messler: "Ideally each country should be an Ortsgruppe of the SV, or considered a region, but the almighty FCI will not allow such. Herr Messler hypothetically ask each WUSV member nation in 2002 if separating from FCI would be feasible but none of the WUSV nations would want to do it. " Roger, what is the purpose and function of the FCI? Are you suggesting that National GSD clubs from the WUSV should remove themselves from the FCI? Breed clubs are NOT members of the FCI only the kennel club of the country hold this position. Your hypothetically assumption doesn't compute. Are you redefining the FCI? Do you know what Messler propsed to the FCI? Apparently from what you have written, you don't. Perhaps you can elaborate on this, so that we can look at the merits of Messler's proposal and understand why the FCI rejected it.

by Roger Ven Torres on 20 May 2004 - 04:05

First issue, you are right, you misunderstood me though. The National German shepherd dog breed club of every WUSV member nation is NOT a stand alone organization. The National kennel club (that registers all or multi breeds) of the respective countries to which a Specific breed club belongs has complete control of it. Many if not most WUSV nations' German shepherd organization belong to the National kennel club of their respective nations which in turn are FCI members. The importance of papers/pedigrees issued and sealed by these powerful National kennel club need not be emphasized. In other words, no seal on a pedigree that says FCI and the National kennel club, you have a mutt. Hence each member WUSV nations, logically refused to consider separation. Get it? Herr Messler, did NOT proposed to the FCI. This was atthe 2002 WUSV meeting after the SV sieger show. He proposed to the WUSV nation, a "hypothetical" situation/scenario. There was some problem occuring in Italy, that I can not recall the details, at the time and FCI was meddling. This is politics,which does not necessarily, improve the breed. Hypothetically if the WUSV nations agreed, then the SV will have ultimate power on the other hand. SV can now take USCA as an Ortsgruppe. I believe FCI does not allow another country to control a breed organization from another one. I hope this is clear. Roger

by Joanna on 20 May 2004 - 06:05

Roger, were you at the WUSV meeting? If you were not at the meeting, then who is giving this spin to the precedings? The FCI meddling? In what? the SV? the WUSV? in other countries? What proof to you have that this is happening? Landesgruppe 16 has been designated as a region by the SV for the purpose of allowing for trials, show ratings and breed surveys to be issued by them in foreign countries. Roger, your explaination is not clear. You are making assumptions not reporting facts.

Sherman-RanchGSD

by Sherman-RanchGSD on 20 May 2004 - 08:05

+++Sherman, you put more emphasis on a small show in Germany, than a USA Sieger? If my dog was judged by Johaness and passes her Sch, you feel your dog may be superior, as she was passed by an SV judge? Did ou know Johaness was also an SV judge till he left Germany in 1981? You want international recognition using an SV? I person in the know, do not automatically take a dogs title based on SV title. How many dogs you've seen that are V1 in a small show in Germany, beaten by a local dog in a big show here, judge also by an SV judge or Johaness. Some dogs judged by Johaness, did very well internationally.+++ I Ask QUESTIONS I felt reasonable,in an attempt to learn... your replies and assumptions I dont understand. Regarding your ref. on Johannes, Mr. G, Yes, I am aware of the gentlemens background. He is a knowledgable source of the breed along with many others, and also entertaining, so what. I fail to find the relevence of that in relation to the questions I asked. Questions are healthy.IF USCA members desire or inquire on these issues I dont feel it is a problem to try to address them. Also BTW I do not feel a dog is superior based on were the title or rating is given. D.L. Sherman

by M.Carter on 20 May 2004 - 09:05

## Regarding your ref. on Johannes, Mr. G, Yes, I am aware of the gentlemens background. He is a knowledgable source of the breed along with many others, and also entertaining, so what. ## He was an SV sport judge in Germany prior to having it TAKEN away just before he left his police job (which no one in germany just walks away from, very good benifits) and moved to the US. Hmmm....I KNOW why he had to LEAVE germany and LOST his judging liscense....do you Roger? He was also involved in some shady activities regarding some dogs before his hasty departure to the US. Herr Ricardo has also committed various shady deals against other USCA members where Lawyers had to be involved. Be careful who you worship in the US....many of them have long criminal records....

by Henning Setzer on 20 May 2004 - 22:05

Hello, my name is Henning Setzer, SV Judge and K├Ârmeister since 1991 . I`ve judged in more than 25 countrys, different siegershows ( 1995 in USA ) and also the JKL female in siegershow 2001 in germany. After reading all the posted messages in front,I feel necessary to answer. First, there are a lot of realy good breeders and GSD Lovers around the world, of course as well in the USA. The quality of top dogs get more and more similar around the WUSV Countrys. So I`ve seen beautiful dogs, breed in the USA, that can compete also in germany well. The breeders in USA should be proud of what the have done in the past years ! It is also importent to tell you, that Mr. Johannes Grewe and Mr. Ricardo Carbajal, who did a judges examination under my supervision, are both judges with a high level of knowledge and integrety. It is so easy to write in the internet gossips, negativs and lies, special for people that are not honest. With respect to all the people that are act like this and to the breeders and judges colleagues in the USA . Henning Setzer

by Henning Setzer on 20 May 2004 - 23:05

Sorry, last sentence must be: With respect to all the people that are NOT act like this and to the breeders and judges colleagues in the USA . Henning Setzer

by Roger Ven Torres on 21 May 2004 - 00:05

I rest my case. Thanks Herr Setzer, for taking the time to respond to us commoners. I am a big fan of the Fidelius kennel. My female's sire is Zasko. Sherman, I was not replying to you and did not attempt to do so either. I was just making a comment. The rules of becoming an SV foreign judge is in the USA web site or you can call yourself. M. Carter, your comments are gutsy. I do not know personally Herr Grewe and Senor Carbajal, but I followed their passion of the breed since 1992. I can tell you that their resolve of improving the breed is amazing. A lot more people also in the USA organization, have more passion than all of us combined in this discussion. Your condescending suggestions of the character these fine gentlemen, is the first time I've heard, in 12 years. I am glad one of the respectable SV judge, took the time to refute your accusations M. Carter. Joanna - I was at the SV 2002 meeting n Karlsruhe with the Phil representatives. I was not assuming, I was reporting what I heard. I discussed this 2 years ago in this site as well. Roger

by vbbusch on 21 May 2004 - 02:05

It's good to hear from someone with authority. I hope this will put an end to all unfounded rumors about USA and its officials. Let's support our own we all live here.....





 


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