the Panda Shepherd: an observation in Genetics - Page 5

>That's why over 400 breeds look distictly today very different from a wolf, and each has their own bottleneck for different potential "lurker-genes" that may eventually one day be surfaced, even after 50 generations of leaving no trace of their presence.

Here are a few interesting examples of "panda" dogs from other breeds that are typically only thought of in solid hues:

A "parti" Standard Poodle

(see more on another site)

The "flowered" Shar-Pei

These coat patterns are disqualifying features in both breed standards, but have been around for quite some time and have a fairly loyal fan following who argue the much heard slogan: "No good dog is a bad color."

Karmen Asked

"So why are they saying it's coming from the sire and nothing from the dam?  I thought both had to contribute for such genes?  Can some explain why they say the bitch's genes had nothing to do with it?  Maybe I am not fully understanding all the above statements in the thread and on the Panda Shepherd website. "

Karmen, Thank you so much for the link to Frankie's sire

I am going to try to explain. They are saying this because it is known that ALL nuclear DNA in Dogs is inherited in the following fashion. (50% from the dam and 50% from the sire) (Mitochondrial DNA is only inherited from the Dam).

If the DNA testing is thorough enough, you can account for each gene in an individual as far as who contributed it. There are only two choices. Sire or Dam. And each dog carries only 50% of each of their parents Nuclear DNA meaning they also Don’t Carry 50% of each of their Parents Nuclear DNA.

Since Color can be greatly influenced by only one gene, often it only takes one parent to pass it on.: e.g. Sables only need to inherit one Sable gene from one parent to express Sable color. Shoulder, Croup, temperament and such definitely take a combination of more genes.

What is being claimed is that the “spontaneous mutation”, if it is that, happened in Frankie on a gene contributed by her sire. This would mean that nobody but Frankie Carries it. Not Frankie’s Dam, Not Frankie’s Sire, and Not any of Frankie’s Full sibling.

As TIG wishes, I too wish we had tests on the Grandparents of Frankie, but I don’t know that those are available to us.

If it is a gene contributed by a grandparent as TIG and jc and are explaining, it could be, then that it was unexpressed because of another gene on another locus affecting it’s expression. This Other gene may be one we don’t fully understand well yet as far as it’s relation and effect on other genes.

FerrumGSD

Thanks for explaining that I really appreciate it.   I am understanding it way more :).  

I knew Brain, aka, Amp.  I had a litter out of him as well as two of my friends.  So I have seen three litters out of him. I still own a son of his, my solid black male so this thread is quite interesting to me.

Karmen

Link to more info on Frankie's Dam in this thread:

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/16092.html

Link to Panda Shepherd Frankie o9n the OFA web site

www.offa.org/display.html

Her Dam is:

with both sire and dam also Listed, so we can reseach this pedigree!

On BiColor, or Bi-Color

Darylehret, I did do a study on the bicolor pattern some years back, and found if I can recall right, that bicolors always have Black on the Back part of the Hock/pastern, if a GSD is also a Liver, then the back of the Hock, is liver, if Blue, then Blue.

This is only when the GSD displays Bicolor pattern in Phenotype. and I believe there for carries either Bicolor/Black genes or Bicolor / Bicolor genes The only recessive to Bicolor is Solid Black, and Sable, and B/Tan pasterns are dominant to it. This is not carved in stone but my recollection from a small study or observation I made years ago.

* Mitake: B/Tan pasterns are dominant to it

Should say : B/Tan Patterns are dominat to it

"bicolors always have Black on the Back part of the Hock/pastern"

That sounds like a great rule to go by.  It is also theorized that the controlling gene for bicoloration pattern is NOT located on the agouti locus, but on another loci and simply "overides" the expression for black, while the other patterns overide the expression of bicolor.  But if that were the case, I think we'd see cases where single litters had all four basic color patterns, instead of just the potential for three patterns at a given time.  http://www.ehretgsd.com/GSDcolorGenes.pdf
 

"bicolors always have Black on the Back part of the Hock/pastern"

You are absolutely right Darylehret, and to support your case, I have noticed that a lot of Sables also have some black on the back side of the hock, these Sables with this feature often procuce a bicolor progeny when bred to a partner who's genetic makeup allows for bicolor to be expressed in a progeny. I wonder if black on the back part of the hock in a sable tells us that it carries  Bicolor.

I think you are absolutely right, that is that Bicolor lies on another Loci, thanks for teaching me this.

*lol* Now you've got my chasing my sables all over to take a very close look at their hocks. My females do, but my males don't... I'd say that's just lineage, but now it raises a related question in my mind:

Does anyone know if there are any known sex-linked color characteristics in GSDs?