UK Show Scene - Is it time for change? - Page 11

To Reason and Hesley, Thank You, Thank You, my sentiments entirely.

Unlike some on this board,  I do not profess to know everything about everything. Even earlier on this thread I said how I bowed to the expertise of excellent, fair and respected trainers / helpers and as these people are known to those serving on the GSDL Council I fail to see what your problems are regarding the appointment of experienced and fair minded helpers. Perhaps my naiveity extends in the presumption that sensible, responsible people sit on the GSDL Council and so therefore they would seek the advise of these (known to them) experienced ex BSA now GSDL Wkg Branch people to choose the right Helpers for the job.

Much talk here of what the Germans do, well one thing I do know for certain, since the introduction of Approved Sieger Show Helpers, the Germans only worry about who the Helpers will be when they have worries about the dog and his strength of character. The reality is that every German is aware of this and over the years many have had dogs they 'worry' about along with those they don't 'worry' about and so it has become an 'accepted' state of affairs, almost an unspoken word, except in the confines of their own groups. Much the same as it is here, except without the same type of back biting because all are aware next time it may be them with the dog they have to 'worry' about !!

In this respect the only difference between Germany and here is that few breed people in the UK actually do their own training and those that do are in such a small minority the rest of us are expected to swallow everything they deem to TELL us , sometimes in lumps!!.

So when I asked, why do you need to know who the Helpers are, it was a valid question that required a simple answer. Either because they were Dog 'Worried' or were genuinely concerned  that the people organising the British Sieger Event have neither the expertise or the Common Sence to appoint the correct people and if this is the case we certainly should not be including Sch.  

Vonmeister You said it, "if people are saying all good dogs should do it what does it matter if you live near enough to practice with the helpers  they can cause all dog will act the same and do it anyway if there good enough.."

My point entirely and like a perfectly reasonable human being, without any personal insults on anybody I rest my case.

Regards

Sue B

Just looking at the GSDL WB web page and the approved helper list there is a couple of names on there that the older breed people would be familiar with, these people have visited the seiger show (germany) many times so know the requirements and expectations! I cant find the BAGSD helper list but there may be a few names on there that people would be comfortable with

Presumptions and assumptions, my my, I think I will stay in the real world.

I cannot think of any licensed helper in the UK that I would not be happy for my dog to work on.

Lucky you! - a view shared by very few, even those in the Schutzhund/VPG sport would be wary of agreeing with you. OPENLY - with identification.

I to would be happy to work my dog on any of the GSDL WB licensed helpers probably most of the BAGSD ones as well but not sure who they are as its difficult to track down their list,a point to remember when someone from the UK qualifies for a world team event, the dog gets in the car gets out the other end say in Slovakia and bites in protection somemone it has never seen before during which it is hit hard with the stick, its then given its score gets in the car and goes home, IT IS A GSD not a poodle

reason: are you saying that ALL GSD in the WORLD TEAM pass the BITE test, and pass the protection work section?

Videx for goodness sake get a grip, that would call for a 100% sucess rate. 

Certainly, however,  in the past few years most UK dogs at the WUSV's and the FCI's have qualified in the protection phase.  But these are dogs we are talking about and not machines, and this thread is about the UK Show Scene - Is it time for a change? so please go back to that.

Not knowing who the helpers are, or being able to get to them for training should not be an issue.

Jess

Who you work your dog on is a matter of where it's at...I don't mind working my older dog on any League/BAGSD licenced helper on occasion; my young dog ain't quite ready for that, it would not be productive to his training, but when I have proofed him it won't be a problem (if it were I would not trial him at high level)

With regard to helpers at the Sieger, you need to engage experienced individuals who understand where the UK show scene is at this moment in time and structure their work apropriatly, in my view. It is a begining, and must be approached as such.

Chris

Thank you Chris, the most sensible comment about this very serious and very important TEST from an experienced and very successful Schutzhund competitor.
nugget (Chris) "Who you work your dog on is a matter of where it's at...I don't mind working my older dog on any League/BAGSD licenced helper on occasion; my young dog ain't quite ready for that, it would not be productive to his training, but when I have proofed him it won't be a problem (if it were I would not trial him at high level)

With regard to helpers at the Sieger, you need to engage experienced individuals who understand where the UK show scene is at this moment in time and structure their work apropriatly, in my view. It is a begining, and must be approached as such."

Some of the comments taken from "others" above|::
reason: "if they had to do a working test against the likes of Robbie De Jong and V Honselaar as helpers  i think the handlers and owners would not like the reaction in their dogs and would probably struggle to catch them after the test"
and Some Show people agreed with this 100% - unbelievable!

jesse james: "in the past few years most UK dogs at the WUSV's and the FCI's have qualified in the protection phase.  But these are dogs we are talking about and not machines" MY POINT EXACTLY

my pack of dogs: READ THIS COMMENT OVER AND OVER AGAIN
"when I was doing schutzhund my girl was very high drive never once let go of the sleeve unless told to by me on the out command we had entered into a show and for the first time in my life my bitch came off the sleeve the helper had hit her really hard we all heard the crack over her spine which is were it is not supposed to hit the judge then made them redo the exercise unfortunately everytime he went to hit her she came off it killed me to see this happen, it took me 7 months to get her back on the sleeve I never entered a test again under that helper he was an arrogant nasty piece of work so yes it is important to know who the helper is on the day also important to let the dogs work with them a day or two before the show so that the dog will know how the handler wants them to work each handler works differently they have their own methods and the dogs need to know what will be wanted from them."
THERE ARE OTHER SNIPPETS which prove the need for GREAT CARE regarding HELPERS for the COURAGE TEST at our British Sieger - I rest my case!