UK Show Scene - Is it time for change? - Page 3

When Jayne Swan was with us (Starhope) all breed clubs used to get nagged by her to get their dates in to her, and she would sort out the non-clashing of events... and I have to say, we were most of us a bit lazy about getting those dates in, and needed spreadsheets sent to us etc.,  Jayne did a great job, and sadly I dont think she got the appreciation for the work that she did towards that .....and her words are left with us now regarding show clashes - who took up her task?  No-one.  It would be great if some-one of us (not me organisationsnt my middle name) took hold of breed club dates via the secretaries well in advance and started to organise shows not clashing, including the General Ch shows, which we do know about such a long time in advance.

Mo Lakin - Mascani

Perhaps there are GSD Clubs that are thinking about giving up their CC's. It could be very useful for other Clubs to know this in advance as this in itself could help provide some of our more popular GSD Club CH. Shows an opportunity to have Annual Shows. For example I am sure we all would enjoy an annual Championship Show with the GSD League. Simply reflect on their show last month, it was the highlight of this year. There are several other GSD Club Shows which we could and should all enjoy each and every year. With such shows we can develop and enjoy several key shows to be held annually which will lift our show scene by becoming "must enter and must attend" shows. We certainly need to examine the show calendar and eliminate shows clashing, but also eliminate huge gaps between "attractive shows". When such a gap occurs we can lose interest, and some exhibitors may not return. Take for example the show calendar following the two day show this weekend. For many they see the next "must attend show" as Crewe in December, then possibly a gap until April/May 2009. That is simply not good enough. There is also the clear need for Show training to be held by many more GSD Clubs, As a member of Essington GSD Club (non KC licensed Club) I know the value to my dogs of our regular weekly attendance, travelling a 90 mile round trip to attend. Also such training clubs offer valuable learning opportunities, including the observation of many young show potentials growing and developing through their many stages, and through their training. Observant newcomers can learn a lot, they can also feel part of the success that is enjoyed by club members; this aspect is a very important part of the show scene in Germany. Highlighted by any success obtained at the Sieger Show, all club members feeling part of such success. Education is crucial, not only to help provide knowledge about our breed and its many aspects, but also to help many newcomers to understand why the outstanding males and females win under many various judges, such regular wins clearly are the cause of frustration amongst too many people in our breed, they need to understand why this happens and there are outstanding specimens within our breed. I had hoped that when Zamp vom Thermodos appeared and won at Crufts this year it would have helped many people understand the superb standard that a few dogs within our breed can reach, and we should all cherish them when they come along, not resent them. I am sure many like me have very fond memories of several outstanding GSD of the past, all of them enriching our life’s GSD experience.

from the posts above there are all sorts of reasons for change, from costs to whats fair or not! to who runs things and many more. I'm sure they all contribute to breaking the camels back. We must be realistic in what, and where we can actually influence any change. Remember 10 years ago there was talk of SCH clubs and trainers getting involved in breed clubs to develope the breed to compare with europe, a few have taken that up but the vast majority can just about manage training once a week, run their dog around a ring a couple of times and thats it! How many people with Sch traind dogs achieved that themselves! then you see the numbers drop to probably a handful. Sometimes we try to put the roof on before we put the foundations in. Mo Lakin touched on one point about about J Swans contribution, people often moan about the judge! (including me) but remember the blame lies with committees who select these judges. I think selection of judges should be taken away from committees, and contolled by somebody like the B.C. who select judges for each club and show in a random way, taking away the control of influential committee members. We have a judging list, use it. This will stop the favour vote, give the judging list an airing, and stop the clash of shows. Exibiters may start to feel they are in with some sort of chance.  If we achieved that its not a bad start to firming up the foundations of the show scene. The thought of everyone doing SCH training 5-6 nights a week is a fantasy, you have more chance of seeing your GOD!. Bill Owen.

Advocating the German system and pushing for Schutzhund was not an effort to change our show scene completely. For instance I always advocated a "parallel" system, of both the KC & WUSV Systems. Exhibitors could choose either or both, much as we can now enter our British Sieger which is the WUSV system, and still enter and enjoy the KC system. The introduction of Schutzhund into our sport has happened and the introduction of the WUSV system has happened and will hopefully develop further with REGIONAL EVENTS (Landesgruppen shows), however the current economic climate will inevitably delay this. Our GSD Show scene has many choices from many options and many combinations, we should be able to formulate, all be it slowly and carefully an improving show scene, notwithstanding the difficulties. The absolute certainty is that something needs to be done, and where there is a will to do something there is a way forward. Perhaps a meeting on this subject can be organised, with GSD Clubs represented, exhibitors and the KC represented. Such a meeting could facilitate meaningful progress, and could be followed up with additional meetings as required.

Going back to the CC collectors, I think it would be a very good idea to have some sort of Champions class, in which  titled dogs would be competing against only one another, perhaps even have seperate dog & bitch classes with the overall winner of the two classes being crowned as

  a  grand champion at each show( or similar) ,award  points per champions class won( on a scale as to class numbers competing ) & then perhaps have a Champion of champions award annually, this could be made into a really important award that mutiple CC winners would  really acheive something by winning it, its not uncommon in the horse world & is something that is taken VERY seriously & if won, is a huge accolade to stud use, value of stock etc.I feel this could be a way forward, giving not only the Champions something very worthwhile to compete for, but also stopping the mutiple CC winners being trundled out time & time again for yet another CC.

I know some might think by putting on a class like this, dogs of moderate type may pick up Cc's more easily if Champions are removed from the normal classes, but  I think I am right in saying that judges DO have the power to with hold awards, I know few have the courage to do so but you never know!

why not make the gaining of a cc more challenging back home we had to get five ccs two had to be away ccs from where we lived so in effect that would make you travel to another show outside of your county in order for you to gain those other ccs and the CH status was only given to the dog once it had five ccs and a V grading by a SV Judge at a proper GSD Show not at an all breed show!!!! and we do have a few qualified SV Judges in this country!!!!! the champion class they are not entitled to fight for the cc but  they can challenge for the best of breed and best opposite sex within the show, why cant the clubs offer training on weekends to those of us that cant get to the clubs during the week due to distance and work comitments??? and why dont the clubs challenge each other to compete against each other for club trophies????? why is everyone so damn negative if we all try and work together to build a better show scene by trying out different things we may just improve the showring attitude

There have been lots of really good forward thinking ideas above,and lets not just lose this thread, because I think that if we commit to something to improve things, everyone will see that improvement in quite a short time - if things dont move too quickly .  How could we start to evaluate, and process the good ideas above?

The only suggestion that frightens the life out of me quite honestly (sorry Bill) is the thought of the Breed Council choosing judges for the shows - for many many reasons, and not to the detriment of the panel, or the Breed Council  members, or the clubs delegates that bother to attend the Breed Council meetings, could you really see that working,?.  The committee would inform the panel, and the panel would inform the floor, and the flor would inform back to the panel, and the Chair would be roped in to call order, then the whole issue would start again and by the time everyone had objected and brought new proposals, we would need to start on the shows for 2012 rather than imminent following year Ch shows.  That is what I would feel was a scary move if I was attending a Breed Council meeting.  Everything that is discussed at the BC meetings goes around the Wrekin four or five times and sometimes never gets a conclusion - so judges??? !!!    oh, no, think I am going to have a lie down in a darkened room until that thought goes away....  See you all at the 2 day, hopefully    Mo Lakin - Mascani

Thanks Mo:
"I am going to have a lie down in a darkened room until that thought goes away...."

I was looking for a way to handle that thought!

hallo david

youre not the only one who has this problem also in germany and holland and belgium they have

the same problems every body is talking about the cost of a weekend to the showgroud

fore the normaal people its to expensiff to go to shows every weekend its a lot of money you spent on a show

the most people can't spent the money so its every where you look

e

Sorry Bill but have to agree with Mo on this one. God forbid,  clubs cant even be sure their proposals will be allowed an airing, let alone discussed, despite the dozens of hours they may have put into developing and discussing their idea's before submitting them for inclusion onto a BC Agenda, so the mind boggles to the shenanigans that could develop when it came to discussing and voting on personalities. Apart from what Mo describes above with a load of personal arguments thrown in for good measure, my guess is that the outcome would be pretty much the same as it is anyway, lets face it, the I scratch your back if you scratch mine brigade still make up 80% of club committee's anyway, the same people turning up as BC delegates.  

As for creating a Champions class, IMO this is just pushing one of the major contributors to the ever failing show scene - the win at any cost mentality because only winning matters i.e The Red Card Syndrome, to the breeds final epiloge The CC Syndrome. At anytime over the years all this would serve to do is devalue, not only the worth of the title of Champion, but in turn the Breed. Moving the best dogs out of the way so that lesser animals can gain its title is not what dog showing, breeding or any of this should be about. With the miniscule entries we get today compared with those of the past, soon you would all be able to walk around with a champion on the end of the lead. Then perhaps that's what turns you on and what you want., Me, it just makes me all the more glad I have already walked away.

So go ahead and destroy the quality of the breed altogether why dont you, as for me, all this crap talk just makes me all the more glad I have already walked away and therefore wont be there to watch the crap run around with titles to their names.

Regards

Sue B