UK Show Scene - Is it time for change? - Page 4

Hi Mo and David!! I hope that's not the same darkend room that your lying down in! Now that would be scary! I said in my post, SOMEBODY LIKE THE B.C. Its sad that when we talk about the 2 sections that we should look to for guidance like the League, and B.C. who both have diffrent objectives, who sqabble internally, and with one another, who can we look to for leadership. Mo has statted she has no faith in the B.C. to come to any decission, so where should we look  for a leader who can grab this breed by it's throat and take it forward!! The B.C. THE  LEAGUE, THE S.V. it seems no one has any faith in any of them. So who will take up the challenge! Is it time for a change from democracy to a single leader! Bill Owen.

Hi Bill,

If it is the same darkened room - then it will be a very crowded room, I can assure you, as I am sure most of the GSD fraternity that have ever seen a decision made at these meetings would run to lie down at the thought of the judges being chosen there

Before anyone thinks I am pointing a finger at any person, or indeed the Breed Council Committee - let me state I am not.  I am pointing the finger at the whole way the meetings go.  Perfectly sensible discussions start, then they get side tracked, then some-one often manages to find that with a motion there is a loop-hole, and then the loop-hole is discussed etc etc and it must be just as frustrating for every one sat in the room.

B`ham & Dist put an item for discussion on the agenda that is coming up next meeting - and wallop, before it is an item for discussion, the agenda comes out with Mr Bill Lambert from the K.C. being invited up to that very meeting to talk to us about the item for discussion.

B`ham were sending me with points to discuss regarding a letter being sent to the K.C. with various proposals.  all of these are now invalid, because Mr Bill Lambert also visited my property to check me out as an accredited breeder, 4 days after the agenda hit my p.c. with his proposed visit to the B.C. announced.... and now, my opinion, and that advised to my club B`ham & Dist is totally different.  The check that Mr Lambert did at my home was exemplaray.  No-one could have been running a bad establishment, or not been sure of what they were doing and still remained an accredited breeder.  He was 3 hrs with us (I know I go on, but I didnt go on for 3 hrs - honest).  He checked bookwork, kennels, dogs, food storage, bedding, dog kitchen fridges freezers temperaments iof the dogs, whelping facilities, stud service books, asked for random animals paperwork, and he came armed with much information from the K.C. as to what was required.  He also showed me a "wadge" of evaluations that puppy customers had written to the K.C. about us (this was the K.C. accredited breeder scheme evaluation form given out with each puppy) - and two weeks later, we were informed in full detail of everything being ok etc.,    Now - I am of the opinion that it is the first step that the K.C> can legally take to get into establishments that shouldnt really be K.C. accredited breeders - and I hear that people are receiving theletter regarding the visit and leaving the scheme - says it all now really, but everyone MUST be checked. - sorry I`ve gone off the thread a little,   Mo

There are two WUSV member Clubs in the UK. The GSD League & BAGSD. They are both the largest GSD Clubs in the UK numerically speaking, they are both KC licensed GSD Clubs, and they are both National GSD Clubs. The GSD League is the foremost National GSD Club for our Show scene; The BAGSD is the foremost National GSD Club for local obedience branches and working trials. Both Clubs have Working Dogs Branches for Schutzhund and VPG (VPG is another name for Schutzhund)
It may be that these two GSD Clubs could organise a number of National Conferences for the "GSD in Great Britain". One conference for "The future of the British GSD Show Scene" and another for "The future of the British Working Dog Scene" and a third for “The future of the WUSV system in Great Britain".
Obviously both Clubs could determine those who should and could attend, and if further conferences were required, desired, or beneficial. The very least that they can offer is opportunities for our GSD breeds future within Great Britain.
The agendas, speakers, and formulae for each conference can be agreed and incorporate some flexibility. The SV and the KC could be consulted and involved if desirable.
Perhaps this would offer hope and a basis for moving forward, I certainly hope so.

      sue b :

this is very encouraging sue b. doe sthis mean you have given the show scene up.

what happened things not going your way anymore??

Not at all Pencil, just decided I no longer wanted to spend my leisure time etc sharing a ringside with cretins like you.

Hi Mo, As you stated the darkened room would be full to the rafters, who would be a fly on the wall to that! I do understand where you're comming from, you have, and others have stated you're lack of confidence in certain committee procedure and the will to resolve issues. My point of a govening body to control and issue judging appointments has nothing to do with, if a committee can agree who, or which judge they decide or can't decide to do a show. I agree with you and David, that is like watching paint dry! We have a judging list! agreed from input from all the B.C. clubs. CH. show and Open show judges. If those lists were put into a hat, by name, and selected in a random way, for the following year, each club would be issued with judges for their shows. You dont need to get involved with this or that personal input, Remember all the judges have been put forward by individual clubs so they must be acceptable. It would just be a section of say the B.C. or League who would be processing the existing judging list. A bit like the lottery selection, no discussion just selection. This will give a wider use of the judging list, this could be processed in 30 mins at any meeting. This can help the younger judges to gain more experiance, as each judge is issued with an appointment they are then taken out of the selection for that year. It's a fair and random way of selecting judges without any input of favours. The problems I see is getting clubs /committees to accept, someone else selecting their judges, how many committees will say I'm not having him/her, fear,loss of control, not good enough, wont get an entry, etc, etc, but remember!! these would be judges selected by all the breed clubs, so they couldn't moan! or could they! Bill Owen. 

Glad the KC are actually getting around to checking breeders for their Accredited Status - BUT this should have been done from the start before they even issued out the certificates!!!!! I suppose they wouldn't have got so many takers though? and then they wouldn't have got so much revenue? Speaks for itself really. Also, are they still handing out Accredited status to those who have never bred a litter? Should be a minimum of 5 litters before they even consider awarding Accredited Status!

A step in the right direction though.

Back to the topic - it would be great to see just ONE organisation take control of the show scene, appoint judges randomly from a list of available judges, organise dates, publish dates, schedules, entry forms and results. I agree, the GSDL are probably the best organisation to do this. No disrespect to the BC or BAGSD, but they are just not "with it" enough. They are good at what they do, but just not all that switched on with the show scene. After all, it was BAGSD that organised the show that clashed with NWPB and there is no excuse for that - the NWPB show dates are published more than 12 months in advance and it is one of the major Ch shows of the year!

Also, would be great if haveing selected judges for the coming year, those judges were then removed from the list for the next 2 years at least so you don't get the "same old" names.

Agree too with Sue's comments on CC's. It would be demeaning of the Ch status if CC's were awarded to inferior dogs and I am therefore totally against Champions being removed from normal classes. Sorry, but if your dog cannot justifiably beat the top dogs of the moment, then it does not deserve a CC. I would hate to see these beautiful examples of our breed not being shown just to give someone else a chance. Showing is not about winning at any cost, it is about evaluation for breeding purposes.

David you say "both Clubs could determine those who should and could attend" Who sets the criteria for those to attend? Would those new exhibitors that are not well known able to attend. We all know that you want the BC disbanded so what would happen to it if only the GSD League & BAGSD were to organise these conferences. Is there any place for the BC in your system.

I do however agree with you on the possibility of regional shows as in germany. With so many people members of more than one club regionally what about regional training or would we lose the individual identity of each club. Maybe some clubs need to merge because of low membership numbers and the CC`s passed onto say Cambridge with their "Spectacular " .

Deb you are right that it was BAGSD fault for the clash as NWPB put in for their show last year and BAGSD should have known. 

Matz: Please identify yourself, before I respond.

A few comments from somebody who doesn't show, but who does spectate, so feel free to disregard them as the ramblings of the uneducated.

A number have suggested having one organisation take control. Well as you're all in the same darkened room why doesn't somebody switch on the light?

To avoid show date clashes, is it possible to schedule each show to occur on the same date/weekend every year? I'm assuming this happens for the larger KC shows e.g. Crufts, W&P of Wales etc.

I always understood the Post Grad & Limit dog were the classes for dogs without CCs or too many firsts. True they will come up against the Open dog winner for the CC but as has been already said the best dog should always be allowed to win.

This may already happen but when pups are sold do breeders mention to owners where their local GSD clubs are and perhaps encourage them to get involved in the GSD scene, whether it be training or showing?

And as a last comment it's great to see all of you coming together and talking in a civilised fashion about the future of the breed we all love. Pat on the back & a beer for everyone!

Cheers,

AandA