UK Show Scene - Is it time for change? - Page 9

Kim, So what about those who wouldnt know the name of one helper from another or where to find them if names were given out? Or what if the helper lives at the opposite end of the country to where you live and so some could be able to get to train with these Helpers beforehand, when others couldnt, is that fair? Or is that just your idea of fair? We have to know who the judges are because 1) It is a KC requirement they be named in the Schedule and 2) We enter for the judges opinion as well as their knowledge and expertise of being able to assess one dog against another.

Somewhat different to what we require from a 'Helper'. We are not asking for his opinion and his standard should be the same for every dog, therefore no one dog should or would have an advantage over another, what you are suggesting is that they some be given the chance to have just that. Now it is obvious some dogs may regulary train with that appointed helper but that is just fortunate.  

I do wish people would stop mentioning Germany in the same breath as suggesting like we have anything remotely like the same set up here. Whe it comes to Sch training we in the UK do not all have the same advantage, as they all do in Germany and it infuriates me that the priviledged few still seem unable to grasp that !  It dont matter to me, I wont be competing but that still dont mean I am able to stand by and watch many others being undermined, never was known for sitting on the fence and too old to start now.  I dont have to go to shows to keep fighting for democracy and equal rights for all.

Not sure I sit comfortably with your suggestion the Helpers would like to make a couple of quid for their time and training with dogs prior to the Sieger Show? Whats all that about? 

Sue B

Hi Sue,

Having never trained a sch dog or competed in the open class at Germany or the Uk Sieger(maybe one day),i still understand from listening to friends in Germany and the uk that the helper is important.All helpers are not the same,some maybe harder than others,some use different approaches to a dog.

I would want to know if i was in that situation who the helper was and how he was going to be with MY dog.

Your right we are not asking for his opinion,but i dont want to ruin my dog with a bad helper,who would when they have put in a lot of hard work and effort.

This is only my thoughts if it was my dog......

This is the BRITISH SIEGER we are talking about - under WUSV system - the one LIGHT that shines for our future.

Are we going to BASTARDISE every lesson and experience learnt by the Germans over 100 years? or Are we going to accept that US Brits should adopts and accept the German SV system for our Sieger Show?
Those that do not - please  exhibit ONLY under the KC system - you will be happy there. So will I.
 

Is it not the same wanting to know who is judging a breed show before you enter or not! as wanting to know who the helpers are before you let them loose on your dogs. Comments about helpers, calling breed dogs "blondies" and how they might deal with them, opens all sorts of cans of worms. I wonder if people are starting to think we have enough coruption in the breed, Is it possible we have the same attitude between our breed and the Sch working as exists between the UK section and our side, strong differences of attitude, mistrust, how it should be done etc. What is the point of spending a raft of money training or having a dog trained in Sch importing it here, then not useing that skill for over a year! Sue, some people would say that is cruel! Once a dog is trained, it needs regular workouts or it may become bored and frustrated. I'm suprised you stated that on this thread, and I bet your not the only one. Dave Payne is right, In the real world the shepherd people havn't got the time, the will, the determination, the balls, to take this breed where some people think it should be. Clubs, committees, B.C. have discussed, the same items for years with no progress, Sue B, and Mo,  have already aired their total contempt for proceedures and lack of success through the B.C. I'm sure there are many more. Mabe it's time to disband these marble palaces and start again. I think the people who run them are so entrenched in their old ways It becomes impossible to move forward. So who is for real change!

Dave, (Videx) since you have not come back to my ???? I can only assume your reply was to me. Well I too live in the REAL world and in my REAL world I would expect the British Sieger Organisers to be totally aware of the Unsavoury 'Helpers' to which you refer and therefore NOT Appoint them. That is all I was suggesting, to infer anyone needs to know the names of the helpers prior to this is to infer otherwise.

Your other remarks, if levied at me, I consider insulting, I am here in my own right, with my vast knowledge and experience, I am not one of Trolls on this boards that you profess to so despise, so please refrain from speaking to me as if I were, lest you prove the point the trolls have been making....they withhold their names in fear of being personally attacked.

Another debate, turned sour with personal inuendo's.  

Regards

Sue B

maybe were not ready in the uk to hold a proper sieger show..

ie-- not knowing who the helpers are,or even a simple thing like if theres off lead gaiting things might aswell been left the same as last year then people couldnt have moaned about the above things..i think things have jumped to quick maybe this year it should have been bh and off lead gaiting and sch next year maybe everyone thorght it was gonna be easy to organise i dont know but if things are not sorted soon its gonna go belly up

why shouldnt the helper make a couple of quid out of it.. the handlers will at the show  or will they be doing it for free also.i doubt it very much....

maybe we should be thinking how to improve our championship shows rather then having a sieger show....just a thorght

Karen, (Xfactor)

I absolutely agree with you, but all I was saying is that surely the Sieger Show Committee should have the expertise on board to be also aware of this and take steps to ensure no the type of Helpers refered to are not appointed.

As for Helpers at the Sieger Show, there are a number appointed, obviously some will vary from others in how hard they are with the dogs (if only because some helpers have more strength than others), but all have to reach a certain standard before they are appointed and none of the dogs entered have any idea which Helper will be in the ring at the time they go in. 

It was also mentioned here how everyone can get the chance of training under All Sieger Show appointed Helpers as they go around the German Show circuit prior to the Sieger Show, Well thats exactly what I am talking about, we are not in Germany and so we couldnt just turn up at a show here to practise with an appointed Helper, we would have to travel to where ever he lived and only then if we were lucky enough to get into that club to be allowed to go and practice with him.

I will repeat, THIS IS NOT GERMANY, and the sooner people will accept that the sooner we will understand each other. I know what happens in Germany, I have been there often enough with experienced people, enjoyed the hospitality of their club house etc. So I do not need telling how it is in Germany,  I just wish people would stop acting as if we all have the same opportunities here, we dont. Just because Im alright Jack, doesnt mean that applies to everyone.

Regards

Sue

Sue: When someone posts ????? Videx ????? - I do NOT assume what it may mean - I simply ignore it!
If it is your wish to take my comments personally - so be it, there is a saying "if the cap fits". You should NOT assume your VAST experiemce includes Germany, even I am still learning on that, although I experience many occassions when someone mates a female in Germany or buys a German dog, they suddenly assume GREAT insight and KNOWLEDGE of the German SV system. Truth is they know little more than they knew before.

Dave, so what are you saying , that albeit posted immediately under mine your REAL world comment was not directed at me? Suggesting I do not live in the REAL world is insulting enough, If I dont live in the REAL world you certainly dont !!

Then you say,

"it appears they CANNOT and WILL NOT learn from the GERMANS"

 What is it exactly (with reference to what we were discussing on this thread) I have not,  would not, nor even could not,  learn from the Germans??? 

Then follows your wish to :

"be free of this backward state of affairs, knowledge and experience" . 

Backward of knowledge and experience? I dont think so ! Then you attempt to further insult my intellegence with the 'if the cap fits' comment, Please !!  If you werent aiming any of that at me then just say who you was aiming it at, but just because I challenged you on it, please dont play the silly Cap Fit games with me, because it dont work.

If this was a misunderstanding then only you have the power to clear it up, otherwise I have no alternative but to take it as read !!!!

Regards

Sue B

Neurotic - I am not.