Breed Improvement Suggestions for the UK GSD Breed Council - Page 1

Ok then guys, lots of things have been said post the BBC programme, and before that the Breed Council should do to improve things.  How about posting sensible suggestions on here as to what could/should be implemented to improve the breed, the breeders etc.

My first suggestion is to reduce the BVA hip score, currently 20, that is required to get a class 1 breed survey.  Also for all UK bred dogs to be screened in the UK as well as where ever else the breeder/owner chooses.

To add Elbow scoring and set at which point a dog cannot gain a Class 1 breed survey.

What about having more breed surveys making it easier for people to have dogs graded ,perhaps at every BREED champ show.

If breeders are part of the KC accredited breeders scheme ( pardon me for giggling), then the BC could also police this, as the KC certainly don't, or set up a similar scheme for GSD breeders to register, but whatever criteria is put in place it MUST be actual facts & figures to be adhered to not just vagueries as it is now, then at least by doing that we as a breed would be  SEEN to be trying to put & keep our house in order.Perhaps the kennel club could be encouraged to embrace any BC scheme on its puppy lists to show people searching for a puppy who is recognised as a reputable breeder by the GSD council.

 IF hips scores are supposed to be improving & more dogs bred from are being scored, then how is it that the breed average has remained the same for years & years ???

I think the BC & KC show insist that only dogs with a specific score or below, should be allowed to be bred from,surely in our computorised world its SO very easy to check dogs status then we would hopefully see a demise of top breeders occasionally breeding from animals with cricket scores ( numerically we have enough GSD's to never justify doing that ) also  dogs that are UK bred should be UK scored if being bred from in the UK, what is it with owners who score abroad, do they think it carries some sort of coudos, to me all it does is throw in a vagery in terms of actual hip status, dogs with 'a 'stamp fast normal, exactly what would their score be under the BVA, are owners doing it to give them more leaway with which to breed from IF they think the BVA score may be too numericaly high to look good , the same plates could be submitted to the BVA for scoring, so little extra cost, and yes the BVA WILL score plates taken outside the UK,providing they have the correct BVA submission form

IF hips scores are supposed to be improving & more dogs bred from are being scored, then how is it that the breed average has remained the same for years & years ???

Because so many people in the UK breed from high scoring dogs, plus quite a few breeders breed from unscored dogs or like this accredited breeder who states ''The most important thing a potential German Shepherd owner can do is make sure the pup they buy comes from healthy stock - this means all necessary health checks have been carried out by the breeder prior to a selected mating taking place - dont set yourself up for heartache and costly vet bills - choose a puppy from a reputable breeder - like us'' when the dam she plans  using although a score of 7:5 is progeny of  sire who is known for producing bad hips with different bitchs and she is mating this bitch to  dog  who as the same grand sire on the male line. This is someone who breeds for Obedience not showline. 

If they are going to set a score were you cant breed over then it needs to be per hip to stop people like certain Police forces breeding from a bitch of 11:4 not once but three times.

Elbow scoring should be compulsory, and dogs not used if they have anything other than a 0, as even breeding 0 to 0 will still produce some in the litter with ED.

Again Heamo testing should be mandatory.

how about making  cow hocks a SERIOUS fault as well as any other fault that affects health or movement                (disqualify dogs that show weak movement or that are too extreme)the kc pay far to much attention to color and coat lenghth imo.

also hip elbow and hemophilia should be compulsory  for all breeding stock as wild moor has said 

no dog with a hip score over 15 should be allowed to breed or certainly its progeny should not be registered.

 no dog with an elbow score of 1 or above should be allowed to breed, again progeny should not be registered.

all breeding males must be hemophilia tested progeny from untested males should not be registered.

and DNA testing should be encouraged  

The KC need to take action but there is no chance they will a large portion of there income is from puppy farms so if they start pushing this the puppy farms will simply not register the litters.   

IMO the KC are encouraging bad breeding practice by not enforcing any rules whatsoever .

All breeding stock should be tested for JRD or have parents that have both tested clear.

While in Uk i heard about the German Shepherd Dog League, these guys breed a inbetween of the german show type and of a working type. These dogs are very healthy.

The general public who want a shepherd puppy, are useually clear about one thing, and ask about. "IS THE PUPPY K.C. REGISTERED" Reading some of the good suggestions above is a great start and food for thought. What we need is to parcel all the things we feel are needed into one strong case for presentation to the K.C. in November. What about using the Breed survey as the yard stick for breeding animals, we all need to know and agree what is needed to get a class 1 pass, We set a minimum pass level for a breeding animal and convince the K.C. this is the only level that puppies will be registered from. This will kill all the birds with one stone. Bill Owen.

Improving the German Shepherd Dog breed.
The Breed Survey is certainly the route to take, however it must include the right to appeal and the right to challenge.
The appeal can be made by the owner, and the challenge can be made by any other GSD owner. Only ONE appeal OR challenge can be made in respect of an individual GSD. The appeal or challenge panel should consist of two surveyors and the National Breed Surveyor. The cost of lodging an appeal or challenge should be £100, which is repaid if the appeal or challenge is successful. The breed survey itself would require updating and the Breed Surveyors would require training and to pass an examination, and to be given regular refresher training. There should also be a Breed Surveyor Monitoring programme introduced to ensure correctness and consistency. Perhaps we should also consider having a panel of THREE surveyors for each Breed Survey which would make the Breed surveys less prone to subjectivity and offer them a broader consensus. The breed survey also needs a temperament test of necessary thoroughness and to assess the dogs working ability. Linebreeding of closer that 3-3 should be discouraged and any inbreeding closer than 2-3 or 3-2 should be banned.

David Payne

I would add:
WITH THE ABOVE PROPOSAL, THE GSD BREED SURVEY TO BE "COMPULSORY"
AND ONLY "PASS GRADED" DOGS CAN BE USED FOR BREEDING.

Hi David

Who are the current surveyors in UK?

Margaret N-J

Hi Margaret, I do not have a list, The Breed Council vote on nominations, not a satisafactory method of selection. The list will be with the BC secretary. Perhaps one of the current surveyors could provide the current list of surveyors.