Show vs Working lines? - Page 1

I am sort of on the fence with the purchase of my next dog. As a matter of personal preference I am leaning towards showlines for physical apperance and color, however I currently have a show/working mix (be nice I was a newbie) who's drive is out of this world. I think she gets her drive from her mothers side (working lines), just from what I have been reading about drives in both lines. She has excellent eye contact (intensly stares), never tires and will go all day fetching a ball. Falls asleep with a ball in her mouth, is always up and ready for anything. I love this about her, she makes it FUN to play with her, do obedience, agility and go swimming, she excells at everything she does. I really would not have gotten involved with all this if she didn't make it so fun for me. I guess what I am really asking is... I have no experience with either line, can I find this sort of drive in showlines (they do have to have working titles) or is this type of drive only found in working lines. And if I do go with showlines should I look for dam's with high titles or is this too hard to come by in showlines? Please be nice, I'm just trying to learn more.

I'm thinking that you should really take a better look at showlines. If you could only see my male in action, you'd know what I mean. Just do a LOT of research and then buy out of 2 high drive parents should you decide to go with a showline pup, that's the best you can do. My experience with workinglines in nihil, so can't comment on that, other than the looks of the showlines is what I wanted. The Kirschental dogs are bred for true herding, so they have the drive intensity. Wienerau lines are bred for that too, but, they're much harder to come by. all the best in your search!

GSDfan, It is going to be tough finding much drive in Show lines, yet there are some show lines that do have good drive, but they will not compare to working lines. I've heard Kevin v. Murrtal produces very good drive. Drive in both Dam and Sire side should be considered. I'm sure your current dog got her high drive from the working line side. It does depend on what you want to do w/ this next dog. If you want to compete in SchH, go w/ a working line. These dogs make great family companion as well. As far as show lines having SchH titles, judges and helpers know the difference between these lines and act accordanly. Just because any dog has a title, doesn't mean it's a good SchH dog. A score book needs to be seen, where the dog achieved it's titles, under what judge(s), did the dog get it's titles where it trained, and so on. It's not that showlines are not good SchH dogs, they are just different, work different, have different drive. They are beauty. Working lines can be beauty but are all about work. I currently know the best showline driven dog I've ever seen...http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/399017.html Though, there are fewer than working lines. Hope this helps.

GSDFAN -- interesting question -- what do you want ?? that is the operative question -- !! -- in general if you like what you have described i would urge you to stay with a working line or 50/50 show /working mix -- i have all three .. working , show and 50/50 --- what i like most of all in my group is the 50/50 mix ... what i have is very very very difficult to come across ... the drive in this 50/50 is as you describerd with your GSD , but also beauty and good structure . he just goes goes goes and will do anything for a bite , a ball -- most people think that ball drive , as the cliche goes is important .. that is not so !! [ in fact i do not use the word drive , it is insufficient to describe what exists or what we seek ] -- but what is important is observing WHAT is it that the dog does , HOW it does it , why it does to achieve it's goal e.g to get an object , ball , tug , or bone ...for example .. ya ya ya the dog chases a ball but will it jump through water , over a tree to get it ?? will it charge with abandon to get it .. will it crash into a person and jump on it's body to get a bite at 8 weeks ?? get the idea here ?? also important .. what, how and why the dog does , what it does afterwards .. does it destroy the object , tear it to pieces , does it run off with it , does it play with it ,does it just drop it immdeiately and look for something else , or does it bring it to a person ?? these are the behaviors you want to acess / what you want to observe picking out your pup , - so if you decide on show line , working line .. look over the pup in this light . now my 50/50 .. i do not do drive promotion .. i think that is hogwash -- either the dog has it and wants/ lives to do .. or not .. you cannot make a dog what it is not !! the want/desire /passion has to be inside .. ya ya ya , you can play with a dog and make it fun and acccomplish a task , an exercise .. but what i am talking about is as you described in your dog -- that the motivation is so innate it is so natural to the dog it is analogous to the dog breathing , it's how it lives .. . which brings me full circle to your quetion .. IF THE PARENTS BOTH < repeat > BOTH DO NOT POSSESS THOSE TRAITS [ what people call drives ] THEN YOU WILL 100% NOT HAVE THEM IN YOUR PUP .!! be very very selective on the lineages and parents and thier accomplishments through generations .the parents must posses thed trasits in order for the pup to have them . - personally i like the Karthago and Korbelbach lineages from germany .. working lines .. if you have these and a combination good sch 3 show line ythat is in my opinion favorable too. i also like some of the dogs of working lines from czech and belgium to .so good luck

GSDfan, I also agree that you need to decide what it is that you want to do, and becareful what you wish for. Not everyone is suieted for a high drive working dog and a too fluff show dog is as much fun as a stuffed animal. May be another half/half, it worked for you last time.

The Best working showline dog I know of is: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/26500.htm I have a pup out of him and I am very pleased with him. Here is my pup: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/394349.html

Fed .. thanks for adding your comment - oh yes -- most people want a [ high drive ] dog ... that is why i do not use the term drive -- it lacks understanding of the dog [canine] -- but anyway ... yes , most people do not understand the GSD .. they do not understand the instincts and how to channel them -- you are so correct !! - some people bargain for more than they realize !! so if i might advise -- it will not be a control issue .. it will not be a matching of the wills .. - there are many GSD that are [ high drive ] that when amtured will challenge you and not think twice about snagging an inexperienced handler !! so my advice -- at a young age teach the dog how to control itself . that is self -control ... if you try to overly dominate the dog you may ruin it but if you don't teach self control it will ruin you .

Hi Jason, You've got great work on both sides of that pedigree...I know both sire and dam and they are about as good as it gets for drive in showlines. I've used Indo at stud more than once and all the pups work for real. Good luck with Mace...he'll keep you busy! Vando Moorbeck on Indo's side, Quartz Templari on Orna's side...I've done the same combination and and the working ability is definitely present. Diane

Gsdfan I also have a 50/50 show over work GSD. His father goes to Lasso, and mother line goes to Amigo Brinkeweg. This dog will go all day long, be it the ball, jute, or whatever. I also think his drive comes from the mother. Working lines typically have more drive, this not to say you won't find drive in showlines. I have a showline bitch that has drive that borders on lunacy. You have to find what it is that you want and go from there. You will find some drivey dogs out of show lines, you just have to do your homework. As Fred also posted, not everyone is suited for a very high drive working dog either. Again, that's where you should talk to different breeders of both lines, find out about their progeny, etc. Jason, I know both dogs to which you are referring, and I agree.

GSDFAN -- let me strongly stress -- the show lines for working ability ..and i have seen many , many !! are quite weak !! ho yes there are a nomber in the show lines that do work quite weel but did anyone tell you that there are thpusan and thpusand of dogs priopduced to get that chosen few ?? the show lines work and display is pitiful / disgrace for a true GSD .. i mean no offense to anyone .. so let me add - i have a yasko son , at 6 months he tore my sleeve off my goose down winter parks !! now that's work !! outed on a whisper immediately . calmly and cleanly -but for a show line that is rare .. i have a lasso neuenberg /jeck noricum grandson who is my personal; protection dog and trained in french ring exercies too .. again rare for show lines. in addtion i have a fanto hirshel grandaughter who has done protection work on a body suit in ring sport .. again rare .. so i mean not to be offensive but the bite work at the sieger shows if you ever attended.. some good hard hitting dogs but gee it's lioke kindergarden .. .. you call that a courage test .. a guy running a few steps catching a dog ... what kind of a courage test is that ?? you base the working aptitude of the GSD on that ?? pitfull just pitifull .watch some of the european dog sports and you will see some good working dogs some of who are GSD but they will be working not show lines .