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by Rainhaus on 18 September 2008 - 00:09
Mom or dad needs to be with the dog..not just sent out for results.
by ALPHAPUP on 18 September 2008 - 00:09
John -- I understand what you say ..... ansd i also trained Sch too, there is no collar or leash when i train ! You must have 100% at all times have control of your dog. Most of my protection work has the dog 50 or more yards away from me. sends , call backs from guards ... ..put the Sch 1 foundation on my female ..she had the protection down by 8 months . she did a perfect , flawlesss guard /hold. Calm , clear headed, composed , not frantic but poised. THIS is Taught .. and as i stated .. in every aspect of life . CALM AND THINK .. Control yourself and your instincts and feelings. .. John I have seen what you mentioned coutless times . IMO incorrect training ! Improper teaching ! had a friend that went through that .. did that exercise 20 feet away . the dog dirty bit ... MY words to him ? if for a multitude of reasons, the dog does not perfrom the exercise ..with correctness and good mindset at 2 feet away .. then why are you going beyond .. he just looked at me . This is why I objest to the word correction ... Dogs do what is in their best interest .. if what you teach ..the behavior you want .. if you showed the dog it was in thier best interest .. you wouldn't have a good deal of problems.the difficulty i see .. and related to this thread .. most people use techniques.. they depend on tools ...[ IMO throw tthen all away ! there is NO WAY ] .for whatever it is worth .. all my posts...... just plain understand the dog, develop a mutual synergy , communicate how , when , where , what about the behavior you want the dog to execute and as Rainhaus tried to exemeplify with Karl Fuller { BTW THANKS RAINHAUS} how you hold yourself , how you interact with your dog .. the look on your face , the gesture..the connection ... . Bottom line .. the RELATIONSHIP .. is what in essence everything about the dog is based on . When i train my dogs intiially i don't even say a word. but i get the behavior i want and they attend to me.. SO if you choose to use electric collars .. that is a choice. But i am suggesting to you ...." you get more bees with honey '! and 'teat t the dog .. the way you want to be treated.''
by sueincc on 18 September 2008 - 03:09
As Dean Calderon says "there is more than one way to the top of the mountain". Surely no one here is so arrogant as to believe their way is the ONLY way?
Alphapup: Can you share some video of your schutzhund dogs working in protection and obedience so that we may see your training philosophy in action?
by PowerHaus on 18 September 2008 - 05:09
ansd i also trained Sch too, there is no collar or leash when i train
You must have 100% at all times have control of your dog.
Please tell me just how are you going to have control 100% of the time with no leash and collar!?!
Most of my protection work has the dog 50 or more yards away from me.
For the common dog this is WAY too far from the dog to effectively train it.....unless the helper is giving corrections! Actually YOU AND THE DOG are a team! When starting protection training the dog needs encouragement and guidance that it is doing the right thing and this gives the dog confidence!
put the Sch 1 foundation on my female
NOTICE: She only put the SchH1 FOUNDATION on the dog, not the SchH1 title it's self....hmmmmm.
she had the protection down by 8 months
Ok, well, anyone who has started SchH with a puppy knows that the puppy in it's head isn't mature enough to do the protection! We don't even start our dogs till they are 12 to 18 months.......when the DOG SAYS....WOOF, WOOF, WOOF, I am ready! That is like saying my kid finished the Marine Corps by the time he was 10 and left for Iraq by the time he was 12, no way no how would any youngster be ready for that at such a young age!
did that exercise 20 feet away . the dog dirty bit
The dog was probably dirty because this guy probably used your training methods starting at 50 feet! Anyway, there are numerous reasons a dog is dirty....here are just a few that I know I have experienced. The dog does not trust the decoy, the dog lacks confidence, the dog has thin nerves, poor training, the dog is a reactive dog,,,,yada yada yada....the list can go on all night!
Dogs do what is in their best interest
Dogs don't reason like that! If they did then I wouldn't have a dog at my home that decided to jump her kennel and into the kennel of my MOST "other bitch agressive" female! That was not in Flip's best interest but she did it anyway......I was not home, I was actually on my way home from Florida,, and this was before I got my kennel building finished! Almost cost her her life! I came home to a dog with her esophagus completely crushed(and 4 feet of water in my house!).......best interest my ass! She knew that bitch would beat her butt!
most people use techniques
EVERYONE uses some sort of technique! Even you with your NO LEASH techniques!
develop a mutual synergy , communicate how , when , where , what about the behavior you want the dog to execute
Sheesh, I think she trains wit
by PowerHaus on 18 September 2008 - 05:09
ansd i also trained Sch too, there is no collar or leash when i train
develop a mutual synergy , communicate how , when , where , what about the behavior you want the dog to execute
Sheesh, I think she trains with Ivan Balabanov! If the stars dont line up right and the wind is out of the north and I put on my purple underware and my fairy tennis shoes......awwww, the synergy just doesnt line up to train the blinds today........blah blah blah! (Pssst.....Ivan, I have heard, is like this, LOL!)
When i train my dogs intiially i don't even say a word
First, isn't this a TECHNIQUE? Second, anyone with 1/2 a brain cell can luer a puppy into a sit or platz without saying a word! And third, are you really teaching the dog ANYTHING AT ALL by not giving the action a sound, name, command that the dog can associate with what your request is.....oh, yea, is that the fairy dust, twinkle toes, mutual synergy shit you were talking about??????????????????//
'teat t the dog .. the way you want to be treated.''
Bull crap! I am the pack leader and I want to be treated as such and I will be damned if I am going to confuse the heck out of my dog and treat HIM like the pack leader....NOTE: Treat a dog with a dominant temperament like this and YOU tell me how far you get! I got a booger for ya, lets see you take him and not let him know where his place is (serving ME!) once in a while and I bet you would come out on the loosing end!!! Actually, I know you would, been there!
Well folks, I have had fun with this one, I am calling BS on this person and calling it a night! Kind of funny how this posters handle is "ALPHAPUP"! Silly!
Nite all
Vickie
by PowerHaus on 18 September 2008 - 05:09
ands I also trained sch too, there is no collar or leash when I train
I dont know why it kept cutting this off my post but this belongs at the top!
Vickie
by PowerHaus on 18 September 2008 - 05:09
Ok, it keeps cutting it off, I don't understand why but the training without a leash part:
for all you newbees out there, when you train without collar and leash you loose a tremendous amound of drive in the dog! Also, if you are at training with you club you do not have adequate control over your dog if you do not place a collar and leash on the dog, you are asking for trouble.....it will happen eventually! I don't care how outstanding your relationship is with your dog! If there is never a leash or collar there is never a way to discipline the dog for not doing what you ask, there are no consequences! Good training isn't just motivational there has to be a balance between motivation and discipline also! This can lead to the dog breaking form what you are doing and getting in a dog fight, biting someone or getting in the street! Seen It!
Vickie
by Don Corleone on 18 September 2008 - 13:09
Vickie
I think you're getting too worked up over this guy. I wouldn't waste my time arguing. He and I have a history of disagreement and I finally came to the realization that he is not in tune with humans, only dogs. Hell, he still hasn't really answered my questions from above. He only recycles the same babble over and over. His big thing is to take articles from other people and pass them off as his own. I really liked when, right after USA had the article from SV judge Werner Rapien, that talked about drives and feelings of dogs, he came on here and started his garbage attacking anyone for using the term drive.
That is one of the funniest arguments I think he has made. He says that he doesn't use the term drive because he wants to know what motivates the dog and what they are feeling. Well no shit, Dude. I have a thesaurus too. What I find funny about this, is the fact that you are essentially doing and describing the same thing with different words.
To prove my point. I am going to set a dog up and describe it 3 ways. Tell me if they are different.
I take the dog out of the crate and I grab a bag of treats. I tease him a little and make him come to me for the food. He is very aggressive in his pursuit of the treats. he barks and is jumping on me, using his nose to push my hand open to get at the food. I drop a treat on the ground by mistake and I quickly place my foot over the treat. First, the dog tries to get it with it's muzzle, but realizes this will not work, so he immediately starts to use his paws to move my foot. Very forceful in his pursuit.
1# the dog has very good food drive(which alpha would never say, but he would say, #2 the dog is highly motivated to get the food. or #3 the dog is very excited, likes food, is trying to satisfy his survival instincts and is hungry .
by PowerHaus on 18 September 2008 - 13:09
Don,
LOL! I was not all worked up just thought his post was rediculous and showed him to have no sense in training a SchH dog and I couldn't sleep so I had nothing better to do! I was actually having fun because I think he is full of shit! Anyway, I would like to see one of his titled dogs! Must be a world champ if you can get an 8 month old to do the full SchH routine! Wonder which team member he is on the world team? Why is this guy not doing seminars if he can teach an 8 month old dog to do the SchH1 protection? Also, what kennel did he get that pup from cause I want one, LOL!
Vickie
by Get A Real Dog on 18 September 2008 - 16:09
Yeah, you guys should quit bickering and pay me my money, My money. Where is the money? Do ya'all think I am a chump? Do I look like a chump to you? I want the money by the end of the week. The end of the week, you got it?
I'm a business man, I don't do things for free. Don't take my initial polite request and make the mistake of thinking I am soft.
If I don't start getting paid, I'm gonna go looking for people. Believe me you don't want that
By the end of the week
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