Agression with E-Collar - Page 8

Give me your home address and I'll send you $ right away.

GARD,

Can I work off my share of the money,,,,,,hubba, hubba!!!!!

Vickie

www.PowerHausKennels.com

I shared with you many ideas .. took me decades to learn .. much of which other people do .. Researshes like Skinner , Karen Pryor ,who go back to 1950 and trained for ther US Govt. .. There is much behavioral reseach material . In ring sport or agility there is no collar or leash ..So if those are the conditions the dog must  performs under then you better dam well teach it ... you can buy many of videos to see . Leerburg  or Ray Allen may have them . You can muddle if you so desire through much of canine research .. And if I ever do put a leash on my dog it 's for safety not for training .. The leash is nothing but an extention of an arm .. and if you need you arm to train a dog ..good luck .. I choose the dog to respond to me ! a shepherd doesn't control his dogs with a leash or a long line.. If you cannot unbderstand DOMINION vs . DOMINATION .. Good luck then . I could answer all of the above cxomments .. i choose not to do so .. I am not here to puff myself up or  for praise . i present a different way to contemplate and rhink about each one of our dogs. . Not my place to tell anyone what to say , do or think ... I don't do that in life . i share .  .and converse to with the hope of making all of us ,and or canines ,including myself , even better . take it or leave it.  but before i sign off . Can you teach the dog without a collar ......to recall from 1 foot away into you with exactitude ? ...... it is my hope that you can ....now if you do this with exact execution ... then can you do it   2 feet away ? ... if not .. oh well ..just ...oh wqelll ...   BUT if so .. then how about 5 feet away .. 10 , 15 , 25 , .. .... 100 feet .... So tell me ... aside from distance .. what is different about a recall 100 feet away as oposed to 1 foot. ....... it's the same .....  should be exactly the same ...[  now is that  any different than outing in protection ., if you can out 1 foot away .. then why can't you out 5 yards away ?? .. ???? 50 yards away ... why   ??? }   so those who critised me.... if you can't .. then ... ............................................................................................... I am always open to help anyone ... but not if anyone is belittling . ... then... I came back onto the forum to share thoughts and experiences and to hear form others to better myself too . even though have had 20 VA-1 progeny in my life , trained from sun up to sun dowm for years... had a training school ... hold 5 degrees .. i do not need to be  taked  down to .. ...I trained a dog in another sport.. and in a presentation .. within 2 minutes was interrupted ..  for the purpose of getting  my dog to go to the Bundesigerprufung in Germany.. .. and I also refused to show my female in Germany . I don't write for ego .. recognition ..i desire no trophies or prizes .. nor do I feel a need to prove myself ...  One can choose to always see things the way they want. One always wants to hold onto ways... I did not write to challenge ..or dictate  how you shuld train your dog.... I gave words , experiences so forth to contemplate ..   .. Like Bruce Lee would say .. there is no ONe Way ...evey person and dog is an idividual .[ That's another of my points] . each has their own path and way ... If you do not believe the " Relationship is fundamental and transfers to every aspect of training "  ..  If you want to control a canine with force  rather than your being and mind ....then good fortune on your own way ...

Alpha

Do you have all showline shepherds?  Just curious.

Vickie, do you really want my sloppy seconds?  Give the poor boy cash, he just bougt a house and a new dog.

no Don .. I have progeny  from [ and I have met the owner of  ] Karthago Kennels . Fado Karthago and I have progeny from Korbelbach Keennel to .. I have had over twenty GSDs for training myself and I live with 10 currently ..in my home  .. in my tv room ! BTW .. i hold no misgivings about your comment. ...  I did answer your question .. well after explaining to you that i don't believe the word fight [ drive] fits the German Shepherd. I'll repeat : IF the dog PREFERS  what you call a fight with the decoy  rather then a hot dog  from you .....  then.... that is the answer .. the dog has told you what it needs . desires and wants .. so in my RELATIONSHIP .. I fullfil the dog's desire , needs , and wants in such a way that in esseence I get what I want ... Give him the fight , YOURSELF  ! Just making it more attractive , bigger and better [ in the dog's head ] than the decoy at the time you want . Timing is always critical !.. What is the message to the dog ..OH BOY ..when I request you to out .. there is something even better .. over here Boy .that a BOY ..start drooling  . over here--I got what you want .. come and get it !! I illustrated that this is a common European  process to connect yourself to your dog , to communicate to come back to you once you send the dog down field  and out the dog [ or close by]  .You notice .. no force used .. Just you and your head /mind . Now common sense .. don't start a mile away from the helper .. you have to be close enough at first to get the dog to understand .. Yes ? .. set the dog up to be succesful .. start not where you think  but where you know your dog will respond  correctly ! [ this is what I mean by the relatioinshipo .. you have to know each other !]  you can use other tools to help in your comunication if you have to at first . But at some point ther light will go on in his head and he will get the picture [ changing his perception] . then after the dog is soooo conditioned I teach him  with a whistle .. that is another step ..i will skip for now.. when  I use a whistle ...whistle = AUS TO HEEL. . it is used simultaneously to out and call the dog back to heel . one can use this way to relate [ communicate ] to the dog [ the relationship exemplified ]  for a call back /call off ] from the send / bite exercise  too [ the dog has to be within 1 meter of the helper  in order to whistle the call off by the rules] . .. as a matter of fact we use whistles [ i use a marine whistle because it has a special pitch to travel for saving lives ,,,,,i use this also to show my dogs .. I use four amoungst my friends and I  hide from the dog . it asociates my presence with the sound - so they can be placed evenly apart in the ring.. the dog thinks i have the whistle [ unless it air scents on a very very windy day ..saves me from running and getting winded] Don .. i trained for a small spell ... with the fellow when he came to visit  me :  he trained  the famous Bodo Lierberg and the other famous dogs from the 50''s .. do you know BODO ? and the dogs  like GSDs of that era ?  If you are interested i can at some other time share how to condition the whistle in protection work .. another advantage Don of the whistle .. like a clicker.. it keeps the handler from displaying emotions that may inhibit training .. ......our posture / emotions etc. ....the dog picks up on from us .. yes .. See this is why the relationship is crucial .. [ buterflies on trial day .. don't they make an affst on the dog .. when an aggressive dog comes toward us and if we tense up on the leash .. doesn't the dog sense this [ as you wopuld say go into drive? .. in protection doesn't the dog feel us through the leash ? dpesn't a horse read you by the way you sit in the saddle ?? even our voice

Here is a clue:  Stop talking at people, talk to people, Alpha.  You may be surprised to find out many here are just as capable of training dogs, (or relating to dogs, whatever it is you want to call it) as you are.  Yours is not the only way, nor the best way, though it may be the best way for YOU.  Finally, give people at least a little credit, would you?  No one here needs a 10,000 word dissertation, going on and on, ad nauseum,  on how to have a zen relationship with a dog.    If you were more to the point, and original, or posted some videos of yourself and your dogs, people would take you more seriously.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh.  Perhaps you don't intend to sound so patronizing, as if you are the only one to understand basic "dog" and are somehow imparting this stuff to children, but that's how it comes out. 

Just maybe use fewer words.

sue inc..--  the last of my previuos post was cut off . i will make it breif . i communicated hjw we cwn use our relationship with our dog to getr the most .. i eded stateing : relating to this thread .. i undrstand hjow and why someone would use an e-colar. i don't pass judgfement or object . But I stated if youi use the collar  ... and you mess up .. you have notheing to fall back on .. you are done ..or if not ..it woill take you uears to recover .. by then you will be ready for another dog.. If you start another way , i presented a notion to rely on your relationship .. ok if there are others ... then if you need to .. you always have one last tool .. the e-collar.  ... there is no need to be snippy .. I had 33 national certified tests  about teaching canines and a lifetime of scientific  animal behavioral background / trained with the foremost in the entire world .. maybe someone taught me something to pass on . you are not the only ione reading this post. paople of all levels do ..  i didn't thing i was out of line to share  thoughts/expeiences .... because of people like yopu .. insecure .. i will not find the need to post  .. you on your own . BTW .. the foremost people in the owrld on caninmes .. many won't share on this board .. most are probably to far ahead and are busy working their own dogs and kennels... you are on your own

Did it ever occur to you there is more than one "right" way to get a job done?   I think probably in real life you are a very nice person, I truly believe your intent is not to be pompous or arrogant, but come on, give us a break, and a little credit.  This is dogs not zen mystics  101.  A real good friend of mine often says to people who over complicate issues "Keep it simple".

Nobody needs to go away or act all insulted, I just wish you would come on back down from on high, as it were.  We all have things to learn EVEN (gasp) YOU!

Your original post said "not one person here addressed your problem fully".  Amazing.  There is no damn way anyone can "address the problem fully" because the original poster did not provide  enough  information - oh but you think you can identify and fix the problem by giving another long winded disertation on  dog communication 101, which honestly, if people here don't already have a grasp of  the rudimentary basics of dogs they have no business being involved with a grip sport, anyway.

Did it ever occure to you there is only "one" way to type correctly? That last one gave me a migraine.