Silho shepherds - Page 3

Just out of curiosity,I'd love to know if our king shepherds are related? Maybe have the same sire? Our dogs sire is "Sirius Wolf"

I have never posted here but I read the messageboard every day and learn lots. First of all the spelling is Shiloh and the breed founder Tina Barber is originally from Germany. I have known her over 20 years now. In the beginning she advertised these dogs as "remember the old time GSDs" and they were purebred AKC GSDS. She mostly followed Lloyd Brackett's breeding plan and inbred the heck out of certain dogs keeping only the biggest. Then somehow she got the "brilliant" idea to mix Malamute with them. Part of her advertising was called the LMX--LitterMate Xray program and she priced her dogs at different prices depending on how they were Xrayed. Right now she gets around 3500 for a "show quality" puppy. I have never owned a Shiloh nor do I plan to. I believe her website is www.shilohshepherds.com and she has several pages of history on there. I think their temperament has gone downhill along with their health problems. By the way I own 3 "normal" German show/work DDR AKC dogs. I like real dogs myself. I met her when I was first interested in the breed and she had AKC dogs then.

Stephen, Thank you for your well wishes for me and my dog. However, please don't accuse me of saying something I don't mean. I may sound angry, and to some extent I am. That doesn't mean that I won't listen to other people's thoughts. I have clearly stated that I am NOT an animal expert, that my opinions are solely based on my experiences as a pet owner. That is the reason I am soliciting information. As I said, I had checked with two separate Vets who said that the supplements were unnecessary. If I heard wrong from trained doctors, I would like to know it. I like to make as informed a deciion as I can. My experiences with what I now believe to be a poor breeder have taught me that lesson. I thought I was doing right to accept her "expertise" and that of the one person she recommended I check with for her references. I am trying to be much more thorough in my quest for information now. As an educator I must be open to new ideas and thoughts. Yes, I do already have my own opinions. However, the mark of academic excellence is the willingness to seek out and examine opposing viewpoints. Since this is a website designed to give information about dogs, this is one of the places where I turned. I find that many of the people here have more knowledge and experience about dogs than I do. I am seeking that expertise. Yes, I do think that I am right. That does not mean that I am unwilling to entertain other ideas, and I would appreciate it if you would refrain from telling me what I will and won't do.

By the way Stephen, It sounds like you are a responsible and conscientious breeder. I appreciate that. It sounds like you are much more interested in doing the right thing with your dogs and their new owners than the kennel I dealt with. Had I received supportive concern from Ms. Watts-Cross rather than accusatory scorn, I would have had a much different view of the situation.

I have Leonbergers. I have known a fair number of Shilohs, through rare breed shows and training clubs and friends. I have to say I have not met one Shiloh that made me want to get one. They just don't have what I want in a dog -- sound temperament, sound body, and sound working ability. And don't even get me started on the dysplasia problem. I have always admired GSDs, but never even considered getting a Shiloh. I now also own a working GSD and I love her to pieces. She is exactly what I wanted a GSD for, an awesome companion and fun sane working dog. She just happens to have a plush coat, though neither of her parents did. It doesn't bother me because I had no intentions of breeding her. She comes from excellent working lines, an excellent breeder, and has a solid temperament and beautiful structure. I didn't go looking for a plushie. I was looking for temperament, structure, and working ability. And I got all three. Her plush coat was a sidebar, a footnote, irrelevant because I wasn't looking to start breeding GSDs. Her breeder was very honest about the plush coat making her ineligible for breeding, but I just wanted a dog like the ones I had admired my whole life --sane, sound, solid working companions. I couldn't have asked for a better dog than I got.

Colorado MTN BOY- First off sorry to hear about your dog. The glucosamene conjortin is a great supplement to help also goes by name Cosequin DS (excuse spelling I am not a school teacher). If pain gets bad can use rimadyl but for short periods of time as it is hard on the kidneys, ask your vet. Breeders do put things in there guarantees to help protect them. You have to becuase people will do stupid things and ruin a dog then want there money back. Not talking about genetic defects such as HD. I require the person to give me the vet report and copies of the x-rays and if possible to at my expense have my vet examine and x-ray the dog. reason is I had one person, very concerned have a vet take xrays- supposeabley bad hips- took dog to get surgery to fix the hips, only to find that the surgeon looked at the x-rays, re-xrayed the dog and said the hips were fine. Original xrays where wrong position and cloudy. Only thing wrong with dog was Pano, which they grow out of ( bones grow faster then ligaments causeing temporary lameness which switches from leg to leg as it was described to me). As I said they grow out of it. If the dog had bad hips, I would replace the dog, not pay for surgery. NO I would not require them to return the puppy, what would I do with it, though if they wanted to return it I would take it and find a suitable home. Would require them to spade nueter though. The "Return The Puppy" is the oldest trick in the book. most people still love the dog even though he is not perfect and won't give it up especially if you tell them that you will destroy it. So you never have to replace one. Makeing people give special suplements, I don't even use supplements, i use a good quality feed and wouldn't want to throw the balance off. I suggest what to feed them but know people will do what they want. As far as buying a dog, research the breed and the breeder. Learn as much as possible before buying. As for Shilohs, have never seeen one but guessing they are on the same lines as the Panda Shepherds. Stick with the original you will be happier.

If you take a moment to visit http://shilohshepherds.info/ you can find out anything (and everything) you want to know about these great dogs!!!!

I don't see any thing "Great" about these dogs. It is a real shame that "Shepherd" is any part of their name. Tina, you just keep living in your world with your rose colored glasses on and taking those checks to the bank.

My name is Terry and I own 2 ISSR Shiloh Shepherds. I have two of the best dogs I have ever met. I find it very interesting that people on this message board are so very opinionated on what seems to be a true lack of information. All breeds started somewhere, the Shiloh happens to be a breed under developement at this time. Shiloh Shepherds are not King Shepherds, I can't really comment about the Kings as I have never met one. Shiloh's have a very different tempermentthan a GSD. A "hard" temperment in a Shiloh equates with a medium to a medium soft temperment in a GSD. Shiloh's come in both a plush coat and a smooth coat. (Ours happen to both be plush) Do Shiloh's have health problems? Statistically no more than the GSD. Tina Barber and the ISSR, LMX and Health Surveys are working very diligently to lessen the probablility of CHD, EPI, etc. As far as the health issues - like with any other bred dog one might buy or adopt - do your your research on the parents and the breeder. Yes there is a Malamute outcross in the breed, which does give the dogs larger bone structure and a straighter topline than a GSD. GSD are wonderful dogs, we decided that a Shiloh would better suit our situation. We got our first one in 2002 and our second in 2005. They are both VERY healthy, CGC certified. We raw feed, so we don't follow the feeding agreement, nor do we supplement with anything more than Solid Gold Seameal once a week. If you really do your research and decide that a Shiloh is not for you, that's fine. But they are no more a threat to GSDs than a Belgian Tervuren or a Malinois. It is just a different breed of dog that has its roots from the GSD. I would suggest checking out the website that Tina Barber herself supplied for you, www.shilohshepherds.org Thank you

Terry, glad you like your dogs and are happy with them, but the fact remains that they can hardly be called a 'breed' when they don't produce any definitive, uniform type, despite the length of time folks have been fooling with the project. I've been around long enough to clearly remember when Tina Barber was running her kennel ads in Dog World magazine for her basic AKC German Shepherd Dogs, and was still showing in AKC conformation with her animals (I can still remember seeing some GSDs with the Shiloh kennel name being exhibited at both AKC breed specialty and all-breed conformation shows, as a matter of fact). It wasn't too long, however, before she began producing "Oversized AKC German Shepherds", and shifted her Dog World ads to promoting the "Gentle Giant AKC German Shepherd Dogs" she'd produced--the typical ad contained mostly photos of Shiloh-bred AKC German Shepherd Dogs that were allegedly 30, 34, even 36 inches in height, and all weighing in well over 100#. It was several years after this that she began calling them "Shiloh Shepherds" instead of GSDs, even though the earliest of her "Shilohs" were out of AKC registered GSDs, and buyers received the paperwork to register a German Shepherd Dog puppy with the AKC when they bought one of the early "Shiloh Shepherd" pups.