Silho shepherds - Page 4

"Terry, glad you like your dogs and are happy with them, but the fact remains that they can hardly be called a 'breed' when they don't produce any definitive, uniform type, despite the length of time folks have been fooling with the project. " I respect your knowledge of what has happened historically, but I would disagree with your statement that they don't produce any definitive, uniform type. My husband and I are very active in the SSDCA and our local New England chapter the SSONE. We know many breeders. I have not seen any progeny that vary widely from the standard. Yes there are some who may be too small, have an inadequate stop, etc, but these variances are no different than for the GSD itself. I have seen AKC GSD's that range in size from (males) 65 lbs to 120 lbs. Once again, the Shiloh is a breed under developement. Tina and the ISSR breeders are working very hard to widen and stabilize the genepool.

Tlsetien, While I can appreciate your devotion to the breed founder, how much longer will "new blood" be added to widen and stabilize the genepool? I thought the ISSR had a clear vision to the breed? Forty years of vision is, to me, quite a blurred and abscure vision. According to the breed founders own words, she has been "developing since the 60's" and it is STILL a breed that is so undefined as to bring is so many new and bizarre bloodlines? If anyone has an ounce of genetics know how and knowledge, which you better if you are remotely thinking of "creating" yet another breed, why haven't the genetics and breedings been monitored enough over the 40 years to delete the need for NEW BLOOD, decades and decades later? It has been in development for 40+ years for goodness sakes! Again, I can almost guarantee two things, you are under the 5year plan of being with the organization and I would bet you have never been to the founders kennel or you would have witnessed first hand the deplorable condition her entire kennel and her dogs are living under. They are under nourished, they are filthy, living in their own stench, they are horribly under socialized, choosing to lurk in the far recesses of her kennels, they are skittish when you attempt to reach towards them or they stare blankly at you. The pictures on the blog, to view by all, are frightening. The first hand descriptions are memorable. No, I have not walked the walk at her new place that Karen purchased for her after Mindy passed but the volumes of people that have, send pictures, create desperate blogs to educate and attempt to "spread the word". To see the void looks in their eyes (as I did in her previous homestead) will haunt you for life. Search the New York Agricultural Department records and look at all the infractions that have been held against that kennel for so many years. At least you call to view the fact that the ISSR dogs can be too small, have conformational faults and such, but the founder herself claims differently. She save unflattering terms only while addressing and slandering and making derogatory false claims and remarks to those that dare to leave her following or call her on the carpet for her behavior and contradictory ethics towards a registry, towards her membership and towards her proclaimed vision that is in constant fluxuation and never defined. In addition to her secrecy of questionable bloodlines that she is placing in the breed, currently, which when actually revealed by those that are closest to her, she then deny's or attempts to fill the air with smoke and mirrors to keep the registry "guessing" so the formula is never known, even as the pedigrees are being released for proof. Someone mentioned that the founder has the capability to stand in the rain with people and convince them that the sun is shining. No truer words could have been uttered. One gets spun to a deep funnel, a trait that is desired by the founder to keep all wondering what the heck is going on. So many have fled to safe haven from the ISSR insanity, so many have taken their dogs and when the fog clears, thank the day they realized just how "UNvisionary" the founder has been for all these decades. Brilliant people move on with educated degrees in genetics to try and unravel the tangle of deceit and I believe, are doing extremely well. Good luck to you, Tlsetien, it will be interesting to see where you are in 5 years. I am very glad that you got two good ISSR shiloh shepherds. I would again ponder a guess that you did not get them from the founder's kennel but instead from one of her few US breeders that actually do provide care for their dogs/puppies?

Regardless of how you feel about Tina, you yourself are a breeder of Shiloh's. I was trying to defend the breed and offer information to people on this forum about the breed that both you and I love......

Also, if you would like to see my dogs... 360.yahoo.com/tlsetien

>>The glucosamene conjortin is a great supplement to help also goes by name Cosequin DS (excuse spelling I am not a school teacher). I put my 11-year-old male American lines GSD on glucosamine/chondroitin supplements this past winter after my vet suggested it. He had never been lame or showed any problems despite hip x-rays at about a year of age that showed mild dysplasia in one hip. He has always maintained a decent activity level and is still capable of trotting 10-15 miles without having problems (I take him on long walks out in the woods, and estimate that for every mile I do he does three, since he constantly trots out 100 yards ahead, trots back, trots out, etc.). But I have seen some increased activity since putting him on the supplements. We began with 2 double-strength tabs before the morning meal and one double-strength tab before the evening meal for six weeks to get his levels up, then cut back to one tab in the AM and one in the PM. He gets it with about half a teaspoon of cat food and will bark at me to remind me if I forget. The double-strength tabs contain 500 mg glucosamine HCl and 400 mg chondroitin sulfate each - be aware that the dosing information on the bottles usually states the dosage per three tablets, not per single tablet. The tablets can be obtained either as name brand formulations like the Cosequin that EDD from Afghan mentions or Osteo-Biflex, and also as generics. They are available in the supplements/vitamins section of any drugstore or supermarket, and can be quite cheap if you look for 2-for-1 sales.

hexe, you are right! I never denied breeding GSD's in the past ... nor have I ever stated that my "breed" was not developed via a very strict program of inbreeding MAINLY on 2 of my favorite lines (Kari & Ursa) all of this is fully documented!! Please take a moment to read my most recent article .... http://www.tinambarber.info/nonPCArticles.htm (last banner) it's not 100% finished yet because I have a few more pedigrees to enter, but this should give you an idea of where I started, and where I am going! I only replied here (not to start a pizzing contest with the frauds) in order to properly educate folks that were being mislead with false rumors & silly gossip!!

Becky (gateway) you can say what you want ... I have chosen to EXPOSE the PROOF instead!! YOU are the ones calling your GSD's "Shiloh's" ... WHY????? http://www.shilohshepherds.info/splinterOutcross.htm Is it just about the $$$$$$ .... how shameful :>(

Tina, As always, articles written by the political promoters can state anything for promotional purposes. When I saw that you set up a "link" for promotional gains 5 months behind a post, I backed it for "educational purposes". I only hope that there will be those of us who continue to shed light as to the truth behind those self written pages of deceit. Those linked articles, themselves, have been in flux for years, stating "truths" that change with the current trend you want the buying public to perceive. You may need to revise your truths about the shilohs program, once again, if you claim to be breeding GSD's in one forum and shilohs "in development" in another forum, so many years ago. Decide exactly what it is you ARE doing because for decades no one else has seen the "correct product". Apparent "zero" improvement has been obtained for type since you are still "developing" it decades later while STILL adding additonal questionable bloodlines which include GSD bloodlines. You attack others vehemently, who are doing the same. I have never understood your term "frauds" when the bloodlines are exactly the same, sire and dams are identical. The same dogs are being used in pedigrees, siblings may be in two seperate registries, yet you claim one is a fraudulent shiloh while the other a "real" one? That is just bizarre. Because breeders have chosen the high road of ethics and treatment of their dogs and left the ISSR, you claim them frauds. Bloodlines are bloodlines. DNA doesn't lie. I do not debate the dog, nor the breed, I debate that a "formulated" vision by the breed founder even exists. It goes nowhere. The claims of "gradeur" shown only by the dogs you promote, and the slanderous drive all of your websites depict is, to say the least, ludicrous. You use an umbrella of false accusations and smoke and mirror techniues to deceive your members and the public. Multiple court cases won by your buying cliental doesn't lie, either. To me there is no other way but to truly educate the public by redirecting them to unbiased arenas. They have learned it is not by going to your own self promoting articles of propaganda that truth is uncovered. You have educated your breeders. They "heard' and were "enlightened", and then LEFT the ISSR. You openly admit to lying to the public concerning bloodlines so no one ever truly "knows" the "formula". You have shared with many the statement, "paper doesn't refuse ink". It is a continued mission of mine, to promote to the public that they do what they have been doing...research independent of your self appointed political pedistool/propaganda, and they are. Breeders, buyers and the members to the ISSR are jumping ship faster than rats on a sinking ship. For that, I feel a sense of hope because fewer and fewer people are getting hurt and deceived. As the ISSR njumbers plummet, the fractions of solidly sound indivduals take over the mess that was started and are moving forward with greater genetic understanding and wisedom. Qualified geneticists, and qualified disaggregation of information is taking place and the mess is being cleaned up. Whew. Thank goodness. An email was written to me in private by one of your own that shared some interesting but not surprizing oinions, again. I have not nor do I want to bash the breed nor create animousity towards these dogs. But as in any breeding world, it is impairative that the buying and opinionated public do qualitative research and not remain contained inside promotionally propagated BS from forums written by those in question. Spread your wings and fly...and the truth unravels itself. This is my soapbox. I will try not to gump up the GSD list with this disagreement. It is and should be housed within the forums for Shilohs. To the GSD people, my apologizes for my, oh to obvious, opinions. It is not about the breed, it is about educating, in truth, to the public.

Becky, if anyone here wants to learn the TRUTH about these dogs, they can go to http://www.shilohshepherds.info/siteMap.htm everything is fully documented!!