Silho shepherds - Page 8

[sigh....] Let me get her in here to answer that for herself....

IN an e-mail, received July 20, 2008, Tina Barber replied:

I only do prelimb & DON'T send them in to be listed (you CAN mark that spot) because of all the FAKE dogs being listed on the OFA site ;(   Nothing is allowed to be bred if the hips don't pass -- here or within the ISSR.   'Fake' Shilohs means all those longhaired GSD's and wolf crosses the splinters are registering as "real' Shilohs.

Thanks, but I'll clarify my question.  Perhaps NOW hips must pass (ISSR definition of "pass" would be helpful) but in the beginning of the breed's creation, is it true that back then the only "Passing" of hips was by TB?  This is what I want to know if it's true or not:  "'the inventor' of the 'type' naming herself as 'breed warden', and *insisting on reading the hip x-rays and assigning ratings to them HERSELF*."

And what do you mean "because of all the FAKE dogs being listed on the OFA site"?

Also, the fact that a breeder would insist on tons of supplements and you must PROVE that you fed them always - exactly how would you do that, btw? what proof was acceptable? - it was your own fault that you had a dysplastic dog...well, c'mon, that's a HUGE red flag right there.  That announces loud & clear that the breeder expects bad hips and is counting on people's love for their poor pets preventing their returning their beloved dog for "destruction" and replacement.

All breeds had to start somewhere by mixing this and that, and I'm sure if there were online messageboards in Herr Dobermann 's time he'd have been constantly belittled as well.  So if that's your only reason for not liking new "breeds," it doesn't hold water, but declaring yourself, with no professional medical credentials, as the sole arbiter of hip x-rays?  Uh-uh.  That's low.

And just HOW many hip x-rays have you seen posted on this site, asking for the member's 'professional' opinions? Reading hip x-rays is not rocket science. As for Tina doing it herself, hey, WHO takes the x-ray?? THE VETERINARIAN!!  Any competent vet can read an x-ray well enough to know if an animal is dysplastic or not. It's not a matter of Tina deciding for herself.

For the definition of 'fake' Shiloh, read my post again. Carefully, this time.

Thanks, but I'll clarify my question. Perhaps NOW hips must pass (ISSR definition of "pass" would be helpful) but in the beginning of the breed's creation, is it true that back then the only "Passing" of hips was by TB? This is what I want to know if it's true or not: "'the inventor' of the 'type' naming herself as 'breed warden', and *insisting on reading the hip x-rays and assigning ratings to them HERSELF*." Why don't you take some time to read these articles?? http://www.shilohshepherds.info/siteMapHips.htm The REAL Shiloh Shepherd (you spelled the name wrong!) is based on LMX! If you have any other questions - READ http://www.tinambarber.info/nonPCArticles.htm AND BE SURE TO LOOK AT http://www.shilohhistory.com/

what a load of crap...

lots of folks decry over-angulated and small, so there are plenty of gsd breeders addressing

this and though I'm sure plenty of others will also berate that, the point I'm trying to make is

if you want a larger gsd, smooth or coated, they are available. It doesn't take a mutt mix to

create a new breed, or a designer price tag to milk the masses.

And trashing up this database doesn't do anything constructive for anybody, and when it is

obvious that's what has been done, I would hope somebody deletes the records and the

posters of those trash records. 

We'd all be better off to get off the keyboard and our butts, go walk our dog(s)!

 

Tina again:

ALL breeding stock has to get OFA/PennHip ratings, I only rate the pets for the LMI program!  The links I provided answer ALL of those questions -- IN DETAIL!

So, there's your answer to the crap spewed by the 'sliver' breeders. This has been Tina's policy since the very early days. See my post above re. the $4,000 import, born in 1967, which was x-rayed and found by the vet to have Grade 3 dysplasia.

We'd all be better off to get off the keyboard and our butts, go walk our dog(s)!

Excellent advice, oasdog! It seems to have stopped raining for now, so I'm going to do just that!

 

 

 

<<And just HOW many hip x-rays have you seen posted on this site, asking for the member's 'professional' opinions?>>

LOL!  You mean asking for OPINIONS.  You know perfectly well that whatever is posted on this site means NOTHING as to official certification of hips.  Huge difference between "hey, what do you all think of these hips?" and then using THAT result INSTEAD of OFA's in selling puppies. 

<<Reading hip x-rays is not rocket science. As for Tina doing it herself, hey, WHO takes the x-ray?? THE VETERINARIAN!!>>

Sigh. Doesn't matter.  I can look at 'em, too, and probably get it right but me or TB saying what they are means NOTHING as to "official certification."  If TB has been demanding OFA certs from Day 1 as implied in the links, that's great.

Maybe hexe will post back as to what s/he based his accusation on.

 

I am certainly prepared to give anyone who wishes the name of the friend I spoke of, who HAS been to TB's kennel, HAS had 3 of her dogs ALL dysplastic, and HAS spoken to the Dept of AG, in her state when they were compiling complaints about her kennel.. She would be more than happy to speak to anyone regarding her experience with TB.  I'm sure she can also answer any questions regarding the "in's & outs" of the breed founders club policies at the time, which include her reading of xrays and approving breeding stock.

I don't care what's on the site,,I was also a member at one point, and believe me, I thought after reading all the literature re: the club, the breeding policies etc,,I thought WOW,,they are really doing a wonderful job here,,,I was very very wrong,,reading it is one thing,,actually standing behind it , is quite another.  She is quite a salesperson.

I will also admit there are some in the Shiloh breed (the split group) who are trying to clean up the health and other associated problems to make the Shiloh a breed they can be proud of..(has nothing to do with whether I agree with it or not) but I do give them credit..

She can post all the articles she wants, I been there done that, and it didn't take long to figure out the real truth.

 

 

Okay, maybe Shiloh Shepherd isn't the way to go - after checking out the OFA website, it seems that Shilohs have an even higher percentage of hip problems than regular GSDs (and I thought GSDs were notorious for health problems too).

What about these guys http://www.classicgermanshepherds.com/?

They seem to have almost the exact same qualities that first drew me to the Shiloh - the calm family temperament (as opposed to the high energy working dogs) and the straight backs (instead of the sloping hips).

Uber Land already told me about one of them, the Royalair German Shepherds, saying that they were reputable. Does anyone know about any of the others?

Or, does anyone know about any other breeder that isn't listed there, that breeds the kind of GSD with the qualities I'm looking for? I think I might back out of this whole Shiloh thing, the mud-slinging contest is just too much to sift through and deal with.

@JakodaCD OA: Could you tell me which one of the split groups you feel are actually trying to help the Shiloh? Thanks!

In these breeding programs that talk of GSD 'the way they used to be', there seems to be one common characteristic: large size.  Can someone explain where that notion comes from? I have lived with GSD's for 'only' 5+ decades () and that, as well as considerable reading, I don't see how large equates with 'old style'.

In reading Capt. Stephanitz's book on the GSD, medium size was a continuing standard and the early years steered away from overly large dogs.

For anyone looking into dogs who have been bred in the US for generations, the OFA website is a must for research. Using their vertical pedigree can help to view family history which is the most important element in gaging potential hip status.