Silho shepherds - Page 9

Maybe people think of the "dogs they used to know from their childhood" as huge beasts because when you're a child, all dogs seem bigger by comparison. It's called "Einstein's Theory of Relativity."

jc carroll,never a truer word was spoken.it is not just the dogs that seem bigger as a child,i am also always saying to my husband how my favourite snack bar,snickers,used to be huge.he says they were never huge it is me that is bigger ,snickers have always been the same size. what a cheek!!!!!

That's a valid point, but not true in the case of the Shiloh:

In Europe at that time, if you had a business that required delivery you kept a dog with you to protect the money. My grandmother trained her dogs for protection...

My grandmother's dogs were much bigger-boned than the modern German Shepherd. They were calmer and more stable, but also more deadly...Any of those dogs would have given his life for my grandmother without question...

The one I recall most was Rex, our house dog. He was a bi-colored German Shepherd, a very big, mnassive dog, probably 134 to 140 lbs.

(From The Shiloh Shepherd Story, by Tina Barber, pg. 3-5)

Her grandmother's dogs were german shepherds! 

you can still find very big german shepherds, even from germany, or especially from germany.  how many threads have been on this board questions how big the VA males were?

ex: I recently sold a 18 month old male gsd, 3/4 german showlines.  go look at his pedigree Murphy Uber Land.  At 18 months, he was 30+ inches at the withers and 120 lbs.  you will be hard pressed to find a bigger head, and more massive bone on a young gsd male.  so don't tell me that Tina is trying to bring back the large boned, big dogs she remembers as a child.  The shiloh people talk like these gsd no longer exist, but infact the big dogs are becoming more common especially out of the imports into america. This male I had was soo calm, most people would consider him lazy.  I sold him because I didn't want dogs this big.  I prefer to keep avg. sized dogs.  my main interest is for service work, and I do not feel that a dog this size is capable of handling the physical stress that goes along with search/service work. plus I wouldn't want a 120-150 lb dog standing on rubble from a destroyed home looking for survivors.  I would much rather it be a 75-85 lb male, or 55-70 lb female. you can't throw a 120 lb dog over a fence or into a big rig that needs to be searched.  a huge dog would quickly wear down from this type of work.

oh my, am I supposed to believe the words of someone that has a cash cow to protect on what the old world german shepherd was like, or the words of the real breed founder, the capt.,  Accompanied by photo's that illustrate a medium sized athletic dog.  I believe this old world shiloh founder lives in a fantasy world, and has a knack for marketing.

my point is, Tina states she is trying to bring back the original shepherd, or old style.

You say Tina is 60 years old.  that would mean when she was a child and came to america that would be right after WW2.  It isn't hard to find what the temp was like on these dogs being imported after WW2. gsd were being imported by the hundreds after WW2.   you had alot of nervy, quick to bite super sharp dogs.  anything that looked remotely gsd was bought and imported for lots of money. I have talked to many breeders who were around at this time and started breeding gsd after WW2.  they can tell you that the temperaments were highly questionable then.  find any good book on the breed and you will read this info for yourself.

""My grandmother's dogs were much bigger-boned than the modern German Shepherd. They were calmer and more stable, but also more deadly...Any of those dogs would have given his life for my grandmother without question..." this statement was made by Tina Barber herself. 

How can she say the dogs were more stable, but more deadly?  I don't even like the use of that word when it pertains to a dog.  Deadly, what was she calling deadly?  that isn't something I would want to be promoting or trying to breed back. 

Uberland, that's the problem with quoting stuff. It doesn't give the full picture. Needless to say, that is one characteristic of her Grandmother's dogs Tina is NOT trying to duplicate!

Here's her take on protection dogs:

My life with dogs started out in the "training" arena!! My father trained (killer) "attack" dogs <g> and my grandmother used to breed oversized GSD's http://www.newzionshilohs.org/About_Us.htm (I have some pics in my book, so if you get a chance, try to find a copy)

When I was still in my early teens I was training Sch. dogs -- the real deal (that had to climb the scaling wall) -- and due to the fact that I wanted to "prove" that a girl (unheard of in those days) could be every bit as good as any of those macho men -- I worked VERY hard to be the best that I could be!! Thankfully I had some of the greatest trainers of their day as my mentors <g>

All of this led me to try producing the kind of dog I wanted to train -- with good hips!! However I found that even though I had access to the best genepools, the "extra" pups that I had to sell (you can't keep them all) were "too much" for the average family!! I will tell you one story -- Zeus (beautiful dog) was so protective of his owner that when her husband (who she had been "fighting" with - no biggie, just a spat) came out on the porch to "grab her" (it was a tickle hug type of thing - not at all aggressive) the dog attacked him!! She tried to get him off & he bit her in his frenzy -- her neighbor (a police officer) heard the screams & rushed over! The dog was KILLING her husband (no joke, the poor man spend days in the hospital!) & the officer actually SHOT the dog to save his life!! Wanda's hysterical screams must have egged Zues on, because he was completely out of control!! It was a nightmare, and not the only case, just the worst!The next day I was at my Sch. club working with one of my young girls & saw the type of reaction I had been looking for -- READ THE TAMMY STORY -- That's when I decided that I wanted to create a dog JUST like Tammy -- only bigger <LOL> It has taken me decades to perfect my vision, but I feel that I have produced thousands of totally SAFE dogs that are easy for J. Q. Public to raise & train as the ultimate family companions!!

What about my Sch. dogs?? Well, in order to make the $$ that I needed to support my "breeding" "habit" I started using the STM system to train these softer dogs -- IT WORKED!! Take a look at the picture of Contessa in the top left hand corner!! http://shilohshepherds.info/siteMapTemperamentTraining.htm
 

[cont'd]

I think there is another one of her from that photo shoot in my first book (free on line) that explains what happened when Lisa let go of the leash!! Our local paper was doing a story on my dogs & also printed the "after pics" of Tessa on top of the photographer, licking his face!! The dog in the banner (with Matt whispering in his ear) is Charley -- he does "bite work" too -- but I would trust him 100% with ANY child, even though he was raised in a childless home -- Well, Jason was there, but he's a (giant) basketball player that I certainly couldn't call a "child" LOL

Take a look at our HC pages, these dogs are not trained by "professionals"!! They are (most of them) just spoiled house pets, but they get together & are well behaved with the other dogs, people & especially all of the kids -- and boy do we have kids at HC!!

WHY?? Because that "killer" instinct has been bred OUT of them -- I always tell folks that owning one is like pulling out a 357 magnum -- water pistol!!! They will scare the bad guy, but unless their "maternal instinct" kicks in they won't "attack" anyone!!! That's the way I want them!! If I had to get a "real" dog (like the Sch. trainers like to call them) then I would get an Import!! I have been in a lot of "dangerous" situations (like taking a walk at 3 AM in the bad side of Odessa, looking for a coke machine LOL) but I never needed any of my dogs to attack anyone -- just walking next to me was enough of a deterrent!!

Think of this in "human" terms -- most people just don't have it "in them" to become killers! If I gave you a gun & told you to shoot someone -- would you?? No? Why not? Think about it!!! Now take a look at the type of folks that WOULD shoot & ask questions later -- why is that?? Because they have been trained to be assassins?? Because it's genetic? It's an ingredient that I don't want in my dogs -- but some dogs ARE bred for this purpose -- and when people start crossing the line & mixing these two together -- you are going to be dealing with a time bomb!! BEWARE OF THE SLIVER DOGS -- DON'T COMPARE THEM TO THE REAL DEAL!!!

In Europe at that time, if you had a business that required delivery you kept a dog with you to protect the money. My grandmother trained her dogs for protection...

My grandmother's dogs were much bigger-boned than the modern German Shepherd. They were calmer and more stable, but also more deadly...Any of those dogs would have given his life for my grandmother without question...

The one I recall most was Rex, our house dog. He was a bi-colored German Shepherd, a very big, mnassive dog, probably 134 to 140 lbs.

(From The Shiloh Shepherd Story, by Tina Barber, pg. 3-5)

 

Just a comment - perhaps her grandmother's dogs were incorrect standard-wise back than as well?  I mean, just because her grandmother had huge GSDs does not mean that GSDs were supposed to be that size - even back than.  I have no interest in this debate so to speak but it just occurs to me that just because you remember your family's dog with fondness does not make it correct for the breed.  A child's memory of a beloved dog could very well be skewed.  Personally, I cannot imagine the benefit of having a GSD that big but that is just me.

Psycht, yes, her grandmother's dogs would not have met the breed standard. However, her grandmother wanted large dogs for the intimidation factor.