Why do they breed them like this? - Page 12

After reading your last post and of the kind of quality dog you actually breed, Gustav, I’m surprised that in the first you’d resort to sweeping, ill-defined black/white generalizations.

By capitalizing on the qualities of European herding dogs, Max of course envisaged a dog suitable for a variety of tasks, one sound in body and spirit; a vision to which most of us subscribe. The mindlessly narrow, ignorant and opportunistic fashion by which many owners now pursue/corrupt/exploit this concept - as goes too for schutzhund - almost parrot-like and bordering at times on religious hysteria - would see him turn in his grave I think! (Not including you, Gustav.)

Or trumpet often enough that uber-hard Eastern European are the ultimate and soon enough the uber-gullible oblige, no doubt off-loading future offspring into urban hapless family homes. No dog will do unless it can ‘work’? Sure, but for the benefit of more rabid advocates, work at what when pray tell!  

You say: “The dogs that have the structure to work and the dogs that I see working in vocations like SAR, Military, Herding, Police, are usually labeled as "nice pets", and the dogs that I see are labeled as superior structure (front, shoulder, angulation, length of stifle, etc), usually don't work and more important; genetically are incapable of working that's why these vocations don't use them or their siblings.”

Except for the odd poster here maybe, are such dogs ever really termed “nice pets”? (Excepting most police and herding animals and similar. they’d probably make the least suitable home companions.) The assertion that dogs with good anatomy “usually don’t work” simply doesn’t stand scrutiny. It would here also help if you defined ‘work’ for us. Even police dogs perform different tasks; interaction with the public often favors the more tractable, less extreme type of dog. Dogs with “superior structure genetically incapable of working”? Come now …

“Reality, prevalent mindset” and “why do we breed them like this”? Really no mystery there Gustav: the market! This activity is largely driven by profit, or pup sales rather, as variously facilitated, endorsed and promoted by the clubs. Even the smaller hobbyist hopes to sell his surplus offspring. The simple fact is, and one the more extreme ‘work’ converts expediently sweep aside, that the number of pups dedicated toward your mentioned specialties total but a pittance compared to those sold as ‘home companions’! Besides, more specialized harder lines remain readily available, and hardly face extinction.

 

 As said, majority breeding today merely follows on from that first set by the Wienerau Kennel – genetically a one-way street. The world is also a different place from what it was in Max’s day. The GSD’s main role now is as a functioning companion animal within complex urban environments; the harder, ultra high drive dog is plain unsuitable for this task. Apart from the GSD’s renowned mental attributes, the average owner demands harmony in temperament and looks. Missbeeb and funky pretty well sums up other related realities. Maintaining health, spirit, reliable temperament and overall soundness (including genetically) ought to override all else.

A quick mention about the part played by our clubs. Haven’t they done a remarkable brainwashing job - who’d here dare risk being labeled a non-member ‘backyarder’ – I wouldn’t! Do purebred clubs really exist to the greater benefit of the animal? Of course not! Sure they run medical schemes etc (simultaneously generating additional revenue) and provide venues etc, but their very existence and all it implies – closed registry inbreeding – operates in direct opposition to the dog’s immediate wellbeing and longer-term welfare; in fact, and such with our complacent acquiescence, they may well end up destroying the very branch/breed on which they sit!
 

I just want a functional animal with a clear head that's also aesthetically pleasing xD.  I loooooooooooove my German dog, but he has a god awful front.  His pigment could be better too...nice color, poor pigmentation.  You can see in the pictures he's a nice gold color (the second picture is more representative of his true color...the first was taken recently on a gray October afternoon).  He's fading around his feet, and clearly has lost a bit of his saddle (Turns out his granddaddy was dyed....hmmmm....).

By the way, I will divulge the secret that I call him German because that's primarily what he is and what he looks like....he is 1/4 American ;-)

Chisum, I breed to produce working German Shepherds that also make fabulous family dogs, money is not an issue as I have waiting lists for my dogs based on 30 years of breeding one to two litters a year and people seeing my dogs in places and desiring to have them...therefore the fads of the breed don't phase me, I still breed to produce the Bernd v Lierberg, Held v Ritterberg, and Marko vom Cellerland type dogs. These dogs worked and possessed top conformation...now if the conformation or temperament bar has changed, than I have chosen not to follow it, because these dogs exemplified the complete dog and today we have specialty camps (conformation,workinglines). I hope this clarifies where my "mindset" comes from. 

"functioning companion animal within complex urban environments; the harder, ultra high drive dog is plain unsuitable for this task"

I have to disagree with you. I own only working dogs. I live in Stamford, CT about 45 min from NYC (manhattan), I do take my dogs every week to NYC in a peak hours, by the time they are about 2-3 they solid like a rock in that enviorement. I would say it has to do more with your role in your dog life, and how you choose to socialize it. I put my dogs on a busy 2 way street (5 lanes) as soon as I get them, my new female is 4 months old now we spend about 5 to 10 minutes in the middle of the street with cars driveing by from both sides day and night, She is solid like a rock. We tend to blame dogs and their genetics for our own mistakes. Just a thought. But I do agree with that most working dogs are not for begginers (at least begginers that are not ready to fully commit and take the role of alpha).

The Captains dogs were not ultra high prey drive GSDs.  They were calm, easy going, well motivated to work, but docile at the end of the day around other pets, farm animals, and deer and had a good defense(protective) reaction when appropriate to the situation.  They were not hyperactive, did not constantly pace back and forth and made excellent 24/7 family pets.  Due to the WL & SL bifurcation in the breed, folks have diverged too far off of what is the ideal GSD that Gustav described above.  Yes what Gustav is promoting is the ideal GSD for most folks.

I think PReston most of us would agree weather WL or SL people, is just more often than not we take one side or the other.

now what is there left to talk about.  kindly  wuzzup

Thank You Preston, if snapiers knew anything about the dogs I mentioned, they would know that these were not high drive dogs but dogs that were calm, sure, and adapted nicely to their situation whether it be urban or rural....Really its my fault for getting into dialogues with people who only have a point of reference of today's(WL &SL) dogs and therefore can't comphrehend thetype of dogs I'm talking about...My bad!