So Ironic---Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money - Page 4

11/20/08
Now who’s drowning in debt? Bill collectors
By Fred O. Williams
NEWS STAFF REPORTER

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/499295.html

You know the economy’s bad when debt collectors can’t pay their bills.

First American Recovery Services in Amherst, the owner of $500 million in overdue accounts, has filed for bankruptcy, blaming a slowdown in payments from debtors.

“Consumers are really struggling,” company President Mark F. Bohn said.

The company and three affiliates filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in U. S. Bankruptcy Court in Buffalo this month, reporting debts of up to $50 million.

A bad economy might seem like a good time for bill collectors, but it turns out to be more complicated than that. The industry depends partly on payments for old bills — a low priority in many households, now that prices for necessities are high and good jobs are hard to find.

So collectors in Buffalo and across the country are feeling consumers’ pain.

“It’s getting harder and harder to collect, because people simply don’t have the money,” said John Nemo, spokesman for the industry association ACA International in Minneapolis.

At First American, much of the company’s revenue comes from monthly payment plans designed to wipe out debts over time, Bohn said..................

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/499295.html

i have spent my life avoiding government and money systems but now i have kids and i homeschool and i want them to choose for themselves how they engage the world so they need a much boarder understand of the world they live in than i am able to give.  so i have found myself teaching civics to both them and me:) i found a great set of books by raymond maybury - uncle eric series, which i recommend to those like me who are truly ignorant on the subject. it's certainly not the whole picture but i find it is a good jumping off point - well anyway my kids and i are learning a lot from this series of books  

one very curious points "uncle eric" made that i've been wanting to ask people here, who have vast knowledge in this area - law & money:  isn't our present money system unconstitutional?  i ask this because in the constitution it says:

Article One Section 10, Clause 1 (Contracts Clause): No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

now i don't always understand the wording of the constitution as clearly as i would like but this passage seems to say that gold and silver are the only legal form of currency.  yet on the dollar bill it says "this note is legal tender" dispite the fact that it has no relationship, direct or indirect, with gold or silver but you can go to jail if you refuse to accept it as payment. that seem unconstitutional, isn't it? because of this clause could we sue to reinstate the far more stable monetary system of gold & silver? 

another aspect that i'm unclear about is: who is printing our "legal tender" - i do understand that printing more of this' baseless' tender is the cause of the cycle of inflation, rising prices, and recession/depression - but who decides when more is printed and how much new baseless tender is put into circulation ... who is calling the shots regarding the amount of money in circulation?  is it the fed res, the pres ...  a joint effect of gov & fed res? - tia

Unconstitutional? Yes of course.

Newsflash-We the people dont own this nation any longer..

'Give me control over a nation's currency, and I care not who makes its laws.'

-Meyer Amschel Rothschild

so maybe approaching this via the courts might be a step in the right direction?  also since it is unconstitutional why hasn't anyone brought this to the courts already? or have they?

we had a case against the lumber industry thrown out by a district judge on summary judgment on grounds we were not even suing over. so i know the courts system is corrupt as well.  in our case the unspoken reason was if won, which has highly likely, our case would make the lumber industry vulnerable to similar claims; and since the lumber industry is such a major player in our economic system it could potentially cripple the us economy.  so to protect the economy we protect the pillar industries regardless of their policies. now i can appreciate the fears here but this in conjunction with the whole llc* (limited liability corp.) model are destroy our market system.  so now that our system is proven to be clearly unhealthy and is already wobbling under it's many bad decisions wouldn't it be a good time to attack the unconstitutionality of it?  it seems the public would be very receptive to it now that we are paying the huge price for living and seemingly benefiting from this unconstitutional system.

* one thing about the llc i am not against them but i am against large corps hiding behind them i beleive they can be used very effectively, but llc statis is being abused. i actually am a member of a small local llc that all memebers enter into only after knowing all the risks. this is not the case with large llc they put on the market products that are risky for the consummers without ever informing us that we are "buying at our own risk"

I think by printing the words  "legal tender for all debts public and private" it must have made the law books further down the line.  Also, strictly speaking, the states weren't allowed those activities, but it does not say the federal government doesn't have the right? More than a few souls have tried to prove IRS taxes are unconstitutional and they always seem to end up in jail. 

justcurious, this might clarify things for you.

http://killfile.newsvine.com/_news/2007/06/27/805326-debunking-the-gold-standard-the-myth-of-legality?threadId=118854

i wasn't really talking about taxes though that is another important issue; i was strickly speak of the currency we are presently using.  but are you by chance saying the irs prints this "legal tender"?  if not them who? who decides how much is printed and when?

this is my understanding of laws: any law can be passed but it doesn't mean it's constitutional;  we must abide by any law until it is proven unconstitutional and removed from the 'books' or we are practicing civil disobedience; any law can be overturned, but the only way to overturn a law is to prove it is unconstitutional, so it's constitutionality needs to be challengeged and this must happen before the supreme court (state or fed depending on the origin and scope of the law - state law, fed law) where the supreme court judges measure it against the constitution (again state or fed though the constitutionality of any state law can be challenged in fed court).  so the constitutionality of any law that is 'down stream' of the constitution can be challenged in the supreme court provided it gets before them, which seems to be a mighty large feat indeed.

Very good post, KTF – particularly Chapter 11 explanation. 

And of course if auto-makers receive financial support you’ll only end up with a host of other corporations also putting out the begging-bowl. My problem is with the timing – the economy right now already looks as if it might any day fall of a cliff! Not a decision I’d want to have to make!

During early days of Great Depression the general mantra basically amounted to allowing major institutions etc to go bust, and to subsequently rebuild from scratch (in fact, some Fed representatives categorically said as much). Trouble is, this rebuilding inevitably involves massive costs as well.

“The average consumer has a schizophrenic attitude when it comes to the moving of jobs overseas. Yes, we all decry the jobs that have been lost - including our manufacturing base. But we all want our consumer products cheap and these are not mutually compatible. We cannot price consumer products manufactured in the US at prices based on overseas manufacturing because the labor costs in China, India, etc are a fraction of what we pay workers here. We cannot have our cake and eat it!”

The problem here is that China has an almost inexhaustible reserve of dirt-cheap labor and enjoys, or will do so in the future, mammoth economies of scale. Will the West be forced to endure ever-lower wages, and thus living standard, in order to maintain some sort of equal competitive footing? Some Chinese products are already priced at a level below American direct material cost! And of course exporting jobs offshore must entail some degree of reduced domestic consumer spending power. Maybe ‘what’s good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander’ comes here into play again?!

You and I could probably pen a long essay on this alone!

I don’t think the problem lies so much with printing ‘legal tender’ bank notes, justcurious, as credit creation. 

The US Treasury (specifically, the Bureau of Engraving & Printing) prints the paper currency. The US Mint (another US Treasury bureau) makes the coins. The IRS is another bureau of the US Treasury.