DDR vs Working vs Showline - Page 3

Hey DAwolf first you need to learn to ask explain what is it that you are looking for in your nest dog.because it is not so much matter of DDR,SOWLINE, AND WORKING line,for all different line can give you exactly what you want but the important thing here is what exactly you want.it is not enough to say,you want something that train easy and not strong headed.first what r u training for?.you need to know that without knowing u gonna end up with a dog u do not want.all lines can give you what u r looking for.first u need to know what u r looking for.otherwise u gonna have bunch of people fighting which lines are good and bad.think about what u want and and once u know call different breeders and ask them if they produce that or not and take it from there. have a nice one.

It's not all about the lines. I have had high drive Showlines and low drive DDR lines (never a low drive WG Work Line). Meet the parents, see what you think of them. If you don't like the activity level of the parents, don't buy it. It depends on the individual dog. Get the lines you want and pick the pup from the parents you like and think you could live with. Personally, i think there is nothing better then an East/West/Belgian Workline Mix. This has given me the absolute best combo so far when it comes to drive, workability, trainability, and liveability. To each his own.......................................................

Tina 

I agree with Ramage.
I have an import full West German Show line bitch. Can do nothing but show, Djon?? Are you confusing our dogs with some of the American Showlines?? My classy WGR show line bitch Uzzie will hide from no one. She will not tuck tail and run-from a stranger, another dog, nothing.  She's got ball drive out the wazoo. None of my WGR show line dogs are such (wimpy). They pass their CGC and TDI certifications first and foremost to prove they have clear minds and very good controlable temperament, and then often also do time in the AKC Rally/Obedience ring and UKC conformation show ring. MY WGR show line dogs have won ribbon placements in AKC competition when trialing for titles-we just started being involved with AKC competition in 2006 and to date, we have 6 placement ribbons for AKC trialing (we don't even have a local dog club where I live!),  We started UKC conformation in August 2008 and so far have 11 ribbons for UKC Showing (only 2 shows-2 dogs all done on one day). As far as having the proper drives and instincts, that's where someone conscientious of the breed as a whole will select proper bloodlines and individual dogs to build one's idea of the 'perfect' GSD. A mind for considering drive, instinct and proper health/sizing is very important.  I do not approve of selecting a WGR show line male/female based on size alone, either. If you base what kind of a dog you want over size alone, well, you've missed the entire reason for owning a GSD.
West German show line dogs are nice for dependable general family companions (can't guarantee degree of guarding ability)-everything said along this line is pretty accurate. They can also make nice therapy dogs, and even AKC obedience competition dogs if bonded with and trained properly. A breeding with show/working combo can yeild a nicely built dog with a little more drive if you wanted it.
And yes, everything said here is general; there's exceptions to every category-there are a few high-drive WGR show line GSDs, and some calmer DDR/Czech/Working dogs. But it's not the 'norm'.
And yes, the bigger issue isn't so much finding a nice quality breeding/litter to consider, but someone behind the breeding who will deal honestly & be reputable with you as a client. There's tons of sad rip-off stories abounding on this messageboard and other places. Check Rip-Off report's website and google your Breeder's name/kennel name to see if anything negative comes up before you decide to pay a deposit on a breeder-you might be glad you did.

Good honest question... I like a stable sound dog, physically and mentally.. While I'd LOVE to pretend that I'm physically still pu to trialing with a dog, the reality is that I'd be happier with a lower drive dog who CAN work, but is also happy chilling and going down to the river for a hike rather than spending an hour on a sleeve.  I'd like one that I can do PPD training, and maybe get some obedience/ working titles on... but I'm not going to be working towards HIT.  So it's a disservice to purchase a pup with that kind of drive.  Neither  the dog, it's breeder, nor I would be happy in the long run. 

So... I'd go for a lower drive working line pup (we all know not every pup in the litter is the same drive) with good  balanced conformation or a show line who's  not a VA prospect, but still good conformation and has the mental stablity to work. The choice of exactly which choice depends on your personal preference as to physical type.  My last "main man" was Von Hindenberg's Peregrine... from 100% american show lines, but with an eye toward balance rather than extreem... longevity and basic mental soundness.  Pere was everything I wanted @ the time, but as I'm looking for a harder temperment now would look towards Import lines, or a blend of American and Import...

YOU CAN GET A  HALF WORKINGLINE AND HALF SHOWLINE FROM MISTYRIDGE.COM. THEY MIGHT EVEN HAVE DDR IN THE MIX. THERE PUPPIES GOES FOR 2500-3500 DOLLARS. CAN'T GO VA WITH THEM, BUT YOU CAN GET THE BEST OF ALL THREE WORLDS.

http://www.mistyridge.com/dogs.htm

whatever line you choose, try to find a "balanced" dog, one who is not over the top in drives or energy, but has enough drive that makes it easy to train and is willing to please.  cause trust me, there are ones out there who aren't willing to please and those are the ones who are hell to live with.

I have a west german working line bitch, sire from Leerburg kennel - mom imported from Hungary, she is 3,4 linebred on Mink.  Her mom's sire is a 2x National Hungarian working champion and multi WUSV competitor.  She is a very easy going girl, very gentle and loves to be around people and is trustworthy with other animals.  She can behave like a bull in a china closet sometimes, but thats just her way.  I would have no issue's trusting her around small children, she is so gentle.

I also have a 1/2 DDR, 1/2 czech female that is also a sweetheart.  totally trustworthy.  She is great in the house and very easy to live with.  doesn't have crazy drives, but is ready to play at the drop of a hat. she can go from play mode to being calm like a light switch was turned on or off.  and she has many noteable dogs on her pedigree.  Her grandsire is the great Norbo Ben Ju.

Now my showlines are a different story.  my youngest is a total pain in the butt.  Super high drive, high energy, can open doors, always jumping, always grabbing with her mouth ect.  But of course I am not about to get rid of her, I love her for what she is.

I am housing a sch1 showline female at the moment who is also very high drive.  She loves to play rough.  She gets excited, you have to watch your arms and stuff as she will grab them by mistake.  but she settles very well once coming inside.

See, its not necessarily the lines you need to be concerned with, but the individual dog.  you will get pet quality puppies even out of the best BSP champion and World Sieger.  not every puppy produced is a contender for working or for the show ring, no matter who bred them or who the parents are. 

Thanks again everyone!

Something else that you might want to think about is price.  Unless you're a trust-fund baby then, yes, price does matter.  Showline pups from big-name breeders can cost 3X the price (or more) of a workingline pup.  Pure DDR-bloodline breeders are not common but they are out there to be found.

If you are looking for a pet, then I'd say go showline because they tend to have less crazy drive than the workinglines and are not as sharp as the DDR/Czech dogs can be.  Stereotypes exist for a reason, because so many dogs fit the "type" that they are classifeid in. 

Ask lots of questions, do your homework, and best wishes in your search. 

Yvette

I disagree with a lot of you on just one thing. HIGH drive does not translate into HIGH engergy!!

I own a West German Workingline dog. 

Yes he is stubborn (hard) as hell so he fits his bloodlines ( Mink thru Iko, Troll Thru Yoschy and Aerk thru Mando Antverpa) All known for being hard dogs and producing hard dogs and all dogs very close in my dogs pedigree. He will chase leaves when they blow in the wind, on our walks chase rocks, chase our cats ( just play not trying to hurt them), ball crazy wherever a ball is present, even goes crazy when i throw the ball in the house BUT the moment i sit down on the couch he grabs w/e he is chewing on at the time and relaxes. GREAT OFF switch. He is currently sleeping at my feet.

I want my dog to be balls to the walls when needed and be totally relaxed when needed. So to the OP you can still find a dog with high drive but tell your breeder its important that your dog have a off switch. Drive and Energy shouldnt be related IMO

SUPER-DAVE

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