Help: Aggression. - Page 5

"Dogs that display an unusual amount of aggression tend to have been chronically exposed to an environment that created a sense of instability, anxiety, and insecurity"

Very true, and very well put together.

I do  believe that muzzle  on, until he can prove to you he is under control,as well as it gives you dominance,he wont be happy but  oh well ,that is most likely what he needs. You know the saying( oh your mad ,well guess what you will get unmad).As far as trainning try rescue resources near you  ,they know everyone envolved in their breed,plus it is another way to handle a dog that you are not going to put down. best

i have not read all the advise given to you but wanted to share our experience with an unpredictable dog.  our dog showed signs earlier than drake has but he never attacked me or my dh.  the sudden onset of drake's aggression could point to health issues but what you've described could also be indicative of a genetic problem.  in our situation our dog was "one hell of a dog" beautiful well structured, strong, clever, willing to learn ... but with a hairpin trigger and very jealous i.e. weak temperament.  he had the sweetest soulful eyes of any dog i've ever seen and he was very loving and obedient most of the time, but we never knew just what would set him off and when he got triggered this gentleness was replaced with a crazy glassy look and we would have to get very physical to get him under control.

we did everything we could for him including trying to rehome him but he bit any stranger who came too near him. we took him to a trainer who agreed to work with us and we kept him for 3 more years and never had another incident - even the meter reader could enter the yard and he would not attack - but it was clear the crazy never left his eyes.  it was like living not only with a loaded gun but a loaded gun that was cocked and had a hair trigger.  even though we had learned to successfully manage the situation each and everyday was very stressful.  

if we lived in the middle of nowhere we probably would have kept him.  but we have neighbors and we felt is was not only too risky for us but unfair to our neighbors who never agreed to take such a risk. so at 5 1/2 yrs we had him pts.  we later found out that his mother was also pts at around the same age for very similar reasons and his grandam was killed before she was 4 because she was uncontrollable. genetics are a huge factor in getting a sound temperament and it is why i am taking a long time to find the right breeder for my next gsd because a 'bad' gsd, like any powerful breed, can ruin instead of enhance the quality of your life.

believe me i know how hard it is to love an unstable dog and truth is it does break your heart if you do have to put even the crazy ones down. for me making the choice to put a dog to sleep is never done lightly; but if i were you i would not rule it out as a possible right solution because the quality of your life, the life of your other dogs, and the health and well being of anyone who ever visits your home matter - and heaven forbid if he ever escapes your yard and you are not there to manhandle him back into control.  

i believe you have to do all that you can to save his life, i know we did, but if he is unstable due to poor breeding no matter how much training/rehab you do some flaws can never be diminished to the point where you can ever trust him not to harm others.  i feel for you, this is no easy place to find yourself, but if you find there is no obvious correctable physical reason for this sudden change in behavior i'm of the opinion, as sad as it is, that the best thing for all involved would be to put him down. it may take some time to emotionally come to terms with it but the lifting of the stress will help you realize your choice was the right one; besides i don't think it's easy on dog to 'snap' like that.  imo no gsd would truly want or enjoy turning on his owner and these 'wild swings' take their toll on the dog as well so keeping him alive may not be doing him any favors - just a thought.

best of luck to you and our heart goes out to you as you weather this crisis - you are facing no easy decision.

"If it was medical, wouldn't the dog have gone all the way and actually hurt her? I have never dealt with a medical case such as the tumors but I would think the dog would have actually opened her up, as the pregnant woman posted."

One would think, but no. I've dealt with quite a few of these. Remember, brain tumors develop slowly, and hypothyroidism develops gradually. Also--the dog loves her, and he may be struggling to inhibit his crazy behavior. A friend of mine has a Malinois who gradually became more and more aggressive (growling, barking, and snapping but no biting), and she was going to euthanize the dog. I talked her into checking the dog's thyroid, and I also backed the dog into a corner while she was in a growling frenzy and ran my hands over and over her face. She did not bite, and this reassured the owner. Why didn't she bite? The dog is very attached to me, and that overrode the craziness. (This is absolutely *not* a technique I recommend generally. Don't try it unless you know the dog very well, you're willing to get bit, and you have a way to stop an attack if it occurs.) The dog turned out to be hypothyroid, and responded beautifully to thyroid medication.

btw would you be willing to post a pict & his pedigree it would be interesting to see - thanks

I agree with this analysis so much that I am re-posting it.  I know a dog who became unstable (he was always aggressive to strangers) and it was low thyroid.  One out of 3  dogs is hypothyroid.  It is the most un-diagnosed illness and so cheap and easy to manage.  It is like a diabetic taking insulin.

Is he neutered?  If he isn't do it asap.

If he is neutered and there is no medical cause, then DRUG HIM.  There are human "happy pills"  that work on dogs. Your vet can prescribe this for your dog.

I had a new tenant some years back who had a female medium sized dog.  After several harmonius days, she decided to challange my female GSD over food  and bit my dog. My dog responded in kind and I threw one outside and shoved my GSD in the pantry. It was scary and I didn't want to lose a good tenant or have serious bloodshed.  The were both enraged at the sight of each other.

I had some Saint Johns Wort extract which I squirted into their mouths.  I must have given the smaller dog too much, she slept for several hours.  I gave both of them several doses over the following days and kept one on the deck and the other in the kitchen with a glass door between them.   They were extremely "mellow".  I slowly started putting them together again and there were no more fights and they became friends.  I also put rescue remedy in the water.

Obviously, your dog is way past any of this, but, if you get your dog's physical issues resolved, these things might be additional easy things to add to more serious measures.

Good luck, I can't imagine how hard this is for you and your family.  You are in my prayers.

For the most part I agree with the dominance issue with the exception of one bit of information that I re-read to make sure I read it correctly.  After the second attack on the female you went into the bedroom and after some time came out and there he was, inching closer to you and growling.  That does not sound right in terms of his climbing the pack ladder.  I am not that familiar with rage syndrome put I remember when I was a teenager the trainer we used for our doberman (personal protection) had all his forearms bit up.  He explained that he was evaluating a dog that when aggitated stayed in that state until he attacked someone (even his handler), before he calmed down.  All dominance aggression I have ever seen was quick and over with, even the dogs that take the aggression over the top, when it was over, it was over.  Even dogs climbing the ladder do not hold a grudge although they will continue their attempt to climb they do not stay angry.

We could never, ever put our beloved Drake to sleep. Not ever.

I hope to god you have very good insurance. This is a news headline waiting to happen. Are you willing to live with a dog that may injure a neighbor or child? Not to mention the criminal laibilty of keeping such a known aggressive dog.

You will not be able to fix this with out a major commitment and a total change in livestyle (if it is even possible). I agree Cesear would be worth contacting maybe he can take the dog off your hands. He might be too much dog for you or he might be crazy.

If it were me and just about anyone I know the animal in question would be PTS a long time ago.

 +In our home they are treated as if they were royalty, they eat the best of food, get routine trips to the pet store for new toys, vet care whenever it is needed....etc.  Usually they get vigorous excersise at least 3 times a week(vigorous meaning, running in the field after a ball for an hour) and get daily walks and runs in the yard.  Since it has been so cold where I am, neither the dogs or myself like to be out for longer then 10 minutes. That being said....as of late, they have not had adequate excersise.

--- Sounds like they are treated equal to you which is a no no. That is bad news in the making. You need to be above them. And i never heard of it being to cold for a GSD to play outside for more then 10min. I think it's you that can't take the cold which is fine but i very highly doubt it's the dogs.

 +The Shiba....well she just kind of does as she pleases. We are fine with that and love her regardless.  He is great around the house (most of the time) but as soon as he is outside, everything he has learnt goes out the window and he behaves as if he is a raving beast.

---Sounds like they both need obedience. The Shiba doing what it wants is not a good thing. Where the order in the house? And the Raving beast needs real obedience training. Maybe some real tough love.

+The problem we are having is with Drake (male GS). He has always been aggressive.....since he was 6 months old.
It started with growiling at strangers and before I could correct the situation it escalated into full fledge lunging, complete with bark snapping and nails digging into the ground.  At that point I knew I needed to seek proffesional help.  I contacted the behaviourist at my local shelter and had her evaluate Drake. After an hour or so she told me that she could not help me. She said she doubted if anyone could help and we would likely have to medicate him or have him PTS.

---Usually a dog that bad at an early age means it's a nerve bag and has to act out in a defensive manner. Then when people react to it it escalates. lashing out like you mention later on can be a medical problem. What took so long to get the problem looked at when it first started to happen? Also at the moment it first started to happen you should of taken the Alpha role and not let it happen. Look for the signs of it about to happen and stop it before it does. Dogs give off signs first. The Behaviorist is an idiot for telling you that. Just because she couldn't fix doesn't mean nobody else can. Unless it is medical problem. You also mentioned he completed his obedience training at 18months. Why wait so long for training. Training should start when you first get your dog/puppy.

+I heard my female GSD growling and began to walk towards the porch. Before I could make it, Drake attacked her. 
I yelled at him to stop and he wouldnt. My girl was pinned to the ground screaming.

---Sounds like she started it. Then you said MY GIRL. like she is a human. You need to establish that they are pets. Pinning is a sign of establishing or controlling a situation. If he wanted to really maul her or you i'm sure he would of. Not once did i hear you mention that you had to take her to the vet or yourself to the hospital.