Help: Aggression. - Page 9

ARRGHHHH!!!!!!  I can not possibly believe ANYONE is this stupid " Snaiper Some times it just need a place to explode (protection training) to solve a lot of issues ...." Please oh please tell me you do not have a GSD and certainly one that you work in protection. Your statement is one of the clearest in terms of not having a CLUE not one about  protection work. Later you also said  -the dog most likely needs jut few harsh correction " I think anyone would realize that this situation is way beyond being handled by a few harsh corrections.

Also Princess  I can not believe your comment "It just working dog are not the same as inside house dogs."  put in this context. This is not a working/show issue. This is a dog with serious behavioral issues either caused by medical condition, genetic defect or possibly by inept handling. It has nothing to do with working vs house dogs.  But BTW I have a very very serious working dog but one that is stable and clearheaded and also functions as my service dog and quess what lives perfectly fine in the house - at my feet as I type.

Next for the Hall of Shame -  1.maybe rehome,were he can be put to work(NB behavorial issue what makes you think he would qualify to be worked???I just so love it that when people have a problem dog the answer always seems to be "well give him away to be a police dog, service dog etc etc." Those occupations require stable clearheaded individuals NOT behavioral nightmares) 2.If this won't work than you will not regain any control over your dog, and you should look for a new house with experience owners 3.You only have three choices at this point: work with the dog yourself, or find a new home for it with someone who has experience with hard dogs,...4. If you cannot change that picture in his head, you will need to place him with someone who can 5. and if your not up for it then its time to cut the risk,and place the dog else were.I dont mean to put it down just work on placing it were it can get a good life,and do what the breed does and that is work )see #1) 6. So you see listen to the dog, and control or let someone else do it. 7. If you feel you can't handle dog place him with someone that can...

 Seven times it has been suggested that he/she rehome the dog. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING. Thank you  KCzaja  for saying "It would be unethical to give that problem to someone else" . Thank you VKF for saying " Whatever  you do DO NOT I repeat DO NOT do as some have foolishly suggested of passing him off to another person. That is NOT being responsible."  You or someone like you has a dog that they can no longer handle or they no longer want because...(aggression, not housebroken, noisy . not trained, jumps on people etc) What possibly makes you think someone else wants your problem. You grew up with him/her since puppyhood and dearly love him/her but can't manage or live with (or in other situations don't want to) the problems so why would someone else especially when they can easily get a loving nice mannered dog elsewhere. The only way a problem dog gets placed is if you lie thru your teeth or if as VKF noted the receiver has a nefarious purpose at hand - such as selling the dog to a medical lab for experimentation. Please Lewis do not listen to suggestions re rehoming this dog. You are the best person to evaluate the possiblities for him. You are the only one that can choose to be responsible for and to him. Listen instead to the voices of those who have been there and have made  incredibly difficult decisions.

I myself was faced with a similiar problem.  One of my very good GSD friends as she got older and lost her dogs, took in rescue dogs. She had adopted this pup that they thought was a GSD. My friend lived some distance from me so we did not see each other often but talked by phone.  She would tell me all about this wonderful pup and how great he was and at one point asked me to promise to take him if something should happen to her. I told her I would do the best I could by him but assured her that was not an issue we had to worry about. Unfortunately when he was about 2 yrs old she sufferred a massive stroke. Her husband who was much older called me in a panic because he needed help with her medical issues and because he could not handle the dog. He told me that he had called rescue and they had come but had been unable to get the dog out of the house.(GULP GULP) I made arrangements to go down to help out and also arranged for a very experienced handler of aggressive dogs to meet me at the house to assess the situation.

He had the husband bring the dog out. Problem was the dog pulled on the leash, husband lets go and where does the dog make a beeline to but straight to me (similar body size and appearance to owner). I stood very very straight and tall and held my breath. The trainer reached down and clipped a lead on him and we all breathed a bit easier and thought we saw some hope on the horizon since he seemed ok. Turns out he was a mix - best quess was dobie/gsd because of looks and we later found out he had all the hyper reactivity that you can see in badly bred dobe. The trainer decide to work him on leash a bit to get a read on him. Everything seemed to be going swimmingly when clear out of the blue he tried to nail the guy - who tg unlike me has incredibly quick reflexes and was able to manage the situation.

Now I felt an incredible obligation to my friend. We came to be friends after she trusted me enough many years before to sell me a bitch across country. A bitch who gave me some of the best GSDs I have had. We shared a love and passion for the breed and our own individual dogs. I was not going to be able to take this dog because of my own living situation ( taking care of an aging fragile mother and my dogs and my moms) but I had told Vicky that I would do the best I could for "her boy". Since I could not take the dog and my only choice would be to find him another home, I knew that I had to clearly understand what was going on with the dog before I made any decision. I paid for some medical tests and also paid for the trainer to board and train him for a month to assess him for me and make a recommendation. The trainer worked with him and exposed him to a variety of situations including with his own children when he felt it was safe.

"I assumed the OP was female because of the phrase "my fiance", which means a man engaged to be married."

So did I, but this may not be correct. The OP appears to live in Canada, and gay marriage is legal in Canada. Not that the gender matters--I just don't want to refer to the OP as "it."

"She stated in her original post, the dog has been aggressive since he was 6 months old."

But there's no indication that the dog has ever actually bitten anyone, is there? And he wasn't aggressive toward pack members until a few days ago.

"She said, "we would never put our beloved dog to sleep, not ever."

This absolute statement shows emotional issues and not sound judgement."

This is the typical and, yes, emotional response of people who have to consider killing a perfectly healthy dog because of behavior problems--including people who do finally have the dog killed. It does not mean they lack judgment. It means their hearts are breaking. Perhaps a little compassion is in order? Or is condemnation more fun?

"Just like someone who uses the word "execute"  to putting a dog down, and suggests someone, crate, muzzle, and sedate a dog, put them through medical evaluations, and expect a client to spend $100's if not $1000's of dollars on a dog who has shown signs of instability from the age of 6 months."

Killing a dog without ever giving him a chance by checking out the possibility of medical causes is indeed an execution.

The owner is begging for alternatives, and these are reasonable things to try, especially with a dog who has never actually bitten anyone. I don't "expect" a client to do anything, but I do owe them an explanation of what the options are.

I've had to euthanize two dogs over the years because of rage syndrome, and I've (rarely) had to recommend euthanasia to clients. But this was done only after a thorough medical workup and very careful evaluation of the dog. I've seen many aggressive dogs respond well to medical treatment, so I can't share your eagerness to kill.

We ultimately came to the conclusion that the dog while quite bright and biddable in obedience suffered from two flaws. First he had not been adequately socialized by my friend as her health failed and 2ndly as mentioned above he unpredictably exhibited  that classic dobie unthinking over reactivity. Neither was necessarily a fatal flaw but the trainer's recommendation because of them was that he could only be placed with a very experienced handler/trainer who understood how to manage such a dog. He also suggested that because of these traits that even tho the dog had been ok with kids that he not be placed in a household with kids.

We then sat down and talked about realities. He was honest enough with me to say exactly what VKF said. That people experienced enough to handle this dog didn't need him. They had the choice of any dog that they wanted so why would they take him on. Also even if we did find someone willing to take him  that fit our profile with no kids in the household it didn't mean it would always be that way. They could get a different grlfriend who had kids or grandkids might come to visit or neighborhood kids might stop by. So what I had to do was based on the information I had make a judgement about the risk this dog presented and whether that risk could be managed. I'm sure you are saying but it's not the same you didn't live with and love the dog. True but for me this was an issue of honor, a promise made to a friend who I knew loved this dog incredibly and wanted the best for him. I wanted to give no less than what I would give one of my own dogs or what I would hope a friend would do for my dogs if presented in a similar situation. I wanted to be able to decide that I could find him that forever home and that I could fulfill my promise to my friend.

My decision ultimately was made on two things. First of all as a trainer friend of mine is fond of saying "Management ALWAYS fails". A latch doesn't fall, a door is left open, we get tired, we get stupid ,we forget. Secondly I never ever wanted to be in the place where I was responsible for the headline that says GSD injures child or old person or whoever. That was a risk I could not justify taking. So as hard as it was for me because I felt I was reneging on a promise to a friend I made the decision to have him PTS and laid to rest with his owner. I do feel I did the best I could by him because I protected him and society and I truly feel with such a dog life is just constant stress but that did not and does not make the decision any easier. Knowing others have faced similar decisions does not help. I understand that. What I hope to add is to the understanding that in these decision we have to look beyond ourselves and our desires. I think what Miss Beeb said bears repeating -

"Please think long and hard about it, if he's always been people agrressive, there's little chance of that changing but he could do someone some real damage if you get it wrong!"  for that is the worry  for you, for us- :if you get it wrong". God Bless . Our thoughts are with you.

 I didn't read this the whole way through, but wow some interesting ideas for fixing this.

Here we have the basic pet owner mindset. Not slammin, lots more out there. This is common.

Quote: All of my dogs are wonderful, I love them very much. In our home they are treated as if they were royalty, they eat the best of food,

They are obviously not so wonderful. If they were, we would have never heard from you. This is a pet peeve of mine. By definition, a wonderful dog would not growl and get all mental with you. So lets say you have some nice dogs and a pain in the ass.

Here again is a problem that was not dealt with, OB with distractions. It would seem that you taught your dog to ignore you outside the house.

Quote:  The Shiba....well she just kind of does as she pleases. We are fine with that and love her regardless. As for the boy.....so far he has completed a basic OB class. He is great around the house (most of the time) but as soon as he is outside, everything he has learnt goes out the window and he behaves as if he is a raving beast.

So you can see a pattern where you have just let dogs do whatever, yet still define then as wonderful and you are OK with them being assholes. LOL I have had a few dogs I let do whatever.

Please tell me what lines your GSD has came from, as I do not know if it was asked, it is hard to read through a lot of the weirdness here. : )

Here is some interesting shit

QUOTE: 

• In games of strength (eg. Tug-o-war) ensure you win more than you lose. This sends a signal that you are the stronger member of the pack.
• Unless of course your dog has already decided your his bitch, which this person obviously has. How do you suppose he/she is supposed to get the toy away from a dog that has attacked ???

• 

  by sueincc on 31 December 2008 - 14:12

  Yaaa, because when faced with a life/death struggle I will always run to the Internet on DIALUP and ask a bunch of STRANGERS of whom I have no clue who has or has not any experience let alone sage advise what I should do. And OH YEAH, those of you who were stupid enough to suggest more silly interaction between this dog and it's owner, are either irresponsible or as stupid as the original poster.  You need to thank your lucky stars the make believe person wasn't real, didn't know your names and didn't take your STUPID advise.  You don't know what you are talking about, have no clue about the totality of the situation, but have no problem at all putting this person in even more dire straits.  Please people rein in your egos and admit you were had,  Sometimes this place is such a fucking joke.