Got yourself an aloof GSD? Its your own fault - Page 12

Gustav, I don't breed... my last litter was almost 12 years ago!  Frankly, I'd be quite happy to use some of the KK2 dogs, some of them simply lack a little in length of foreleg IMO and quite a few of them have a far better expression and topline.  I'm setting myself up here... OK, I think that often a large head (in a Kk1) is seen as excellent, regardless.  IMO, quite a few of todays large heads lack the nobility of years ago and some are so lippy... like a hound.  That aside, clearly I'm not furthering any trend.

My interest is still avid, I love the breed and I'm toying with the idea of getting another, now that mine are getting on... if I do, I will work my dog, probably WT again but I will go and view a proper Sch trial... as I promised another poster.

If you have any influence with the vom Patriot kennel... please put a good word in for me, I'd love Bob v Patriot!

Missbeeb, I know you don't breed anymore but you have a wealth of knowledge and a lot of people in your country respect your opinion.....and in my heart of hearts i think you really recognize the root cause of  these issues, so I just want to nudge you to speak out more on the working needs before show people in your country hear you(smile). I'm glad to hear you may get a new dog and good luck!

LOL, Gustav, let me put you straight... most people in my country wouldn't know me from a smack on the bum!  No reason why they should... I've reached no dizzy heights, unfortunately, work or show!

Thanks for the good wishes!

Missbeeb, BTW, I got my Malcolm Willis book  in 1977, the year it came out originally. I tried to keep up with the Brittish dogs for about two years, but we didn't have computers in those days and it was hard to get info to correlate what i learned from Willis.

Malcolm Willis really is a wealth of knowledge.  He no longer breeds and some of his books are quite valuable now... so hang onto yours!

 Interesting discussion, barbs and nasties aside.  Gustav, Sue, 4-pak, KCaja:  very interesting points.

I think one of the "problems" here may be that the UK was a bit cut off , when ( or, can I say "whilst,"  always wanted to say that ! ) Britain had relatively tough quarantine rules in place.    So, the Brits have had to carry on and do so nearly in a vacuum. (?)   Also, the "atmosphere" regarding gripping sports may be a bit different than it is in the US?  I know there is a British WUSV team, and apparently a very active club in Scotland, but I would hazard a guess that the schutzhund community is the UK is every bit as small (if not smaller) than it is in the US.  Consequently,  you would have many very avid lovers of the breed without the slightest clue about this aspect of breedworthiness.  That doesn't mean that they cannot learn about it...if they are so inclined.

Missbeeb:  You state, repeatedly, that you haven't bred in twelve years.  What did you breed twelve years ago?  Did you actively train in any venue with your breeding stock?  Did you actively show? If you showed, what "style" of shows, SV-style, or kennel club -style?    What is your actualy experience with working line dogs that you lump them all as looking like "jackals"?  Is that how they appear in the UK?   I ask because I would think you would have had the opportunity to see at least some photos of workign line dogs on thsi forum to know that they don't  all ( or even a majority) look like " jackals".   Although, I admit to having seen a few that did resemble coyotes.   But, most of those were several years ago, and even then, few and far between. 

 Bancroft,

I could not agree more with your initial post.   I know far too many guys (and I intend the male gender) who want that hard, handler-hard dog who will eat up anyone who tries to hold the leash.   They think it is is oh, so tough.  Somehow, it apparently does something for their egos.  ( I am not sure what!)  Those dogs often end up the maneatters that they are because they were treated as pieces of trainign equipment, not dogs.  How can any dog bond with you when its only contact is 15-20 minutes a day...when you are training.  It sits in a kennel the rest of the time.  Kids handled that way end up sociopaths, why not dogs?

Mystere, I repeated myself because it kept coming up!  All shows in the UK have to be licenced by the KC... even the charity ones... money!

I've always been on the German side of the dog fence.  I did show, I did work all my dogs in Working Trials and in obedience.  2 dogs CDEx, UDEx, WDEx. up to "B" in obedience.

Not at any time have I lumped all working lines / dogs as looking like Jackals... please read my posts properly, if you are going to quote me.  Honestly?  I've seen some ugly dogs on here IMO that bear scant resemblance to the standard.  They're not all Jackal like, but they're not that Shepherd like either!  That said, some of the working lines really do appeal to me... vom Patriot for one!

Sch is a growing sport here and we've never been cut off really... we're too close to Germany to use that as an excuse and many, many dogs have been imported / sent over for mating etc over the years.  Loads of us pop over (to Europe) for a variety of shows... not just in Germany!

LOL... should you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me!