ethical breeding - Page 8

How nice to know a name now,
Hi Michelle, and to you Jim as well,
it was never my intension to disrespect you or your dogs. I just have a hard time to believe that the point I made seem to be so hard to understand. Also I dont doubt that your dogs cant work, if they work better than a SchH trained dog, who is to say ? You just cannot compare apples with oranges. Any given dog, if assest correctly, and has what it take to perform a certain task, can be trained to do just that. Heck, I ran across a Pudel at the border of Netherlands that was a certified narcotic dog ! Someone saw the potential in this particular dog and utelized it. And still, even this dog went through a lot of routine, I bet. And no, SchH is not the only dogsport and hopefully it will never be. Bite me, but training is about consistency, and repeating everything over & over, till you have the result you are looking for.But it is part of the breeding requirements for our dogs, and therefore, at least for me, not even close to be a factor to argue about. It is like it is, if these measurements would have not been taken a long time ago, and certain standarts intruduced, our breed would probably have vanished a long time ago. To just ignore what was develloped and monitored for such a long time, is imo foolish. You may not agree with it in parts, but to deny that all this is of great help, speaks for itself. Yup, your standart may very well be better than anything that was dvelloped and mantained over decades, who knows ?
Anyhow, I will put it to rest, it starts to tire me, maybe I am getting too old for this.
Regards Ulli 

 I looked at your avatar, and realized that I was wasting my time. Fucking fake names. I cannot believe I waste time on boards like this. LOL

Baldursmom, you wrote, "I am the owner of the bitch in question here.  She was breed last fall to Ingodd's Albert and the puppies were sold.  I am a person of modest means and little time to train her myself.  She was 3 years old, working great on the sleeve and doing OB work.  I did not have the time to do the tracking.  I had the litter to send her to CA to be trained and titled there."
may I ask how many dogs you have at your house right now that you train every week, why not instead of having multiple dogs that you don't have the time or money to train and get titled. Why not limit yourself to 1 dog and do it right, title the dog yourself instead of buying a title in California, so she can be nothing more than a breeding bitch and charge $3500 for her pups?
What you are basically saying you just want to be another of the many puppy mills that already infest our nation. sOME

Baldursmom,
 
you wrote, "I am the owner of the bitch in question here.  She was breed last fall to Ingodd's Albert and the puppies were sold.  I am a person of modest means and little time to train her myself.  She was 3 years old, working great on the sleeve and doing OB work.  I did not have the time to do the tracking.  I had the litter to send her to CA to be trained and titled there."
may I ask how many dogs you have at your house right now that you train every week.  why instead of having multiple dogs that you don't have the time or money to train and get titled. Why not limit yourself to 1 dog and do it right, title the dog yourself instead of buying a title in California, so she can be nothing more than a breeding bitch, kept in a kennel, minimal human interaction, knocked up all the time, not working, except for a possible show here or there,  and charge $3500 for her pups?
What you are basically saying you just want to be another of the many puppy mills that already infest our nation. I am someone who cares not about the breed but how much you can make from them. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
to me that is not an ethical breeder.

Baldursmom,
 
you wrote, "I am the owner of the bitch in question here.  She was breed last fall to Ingodd's Albert and the puppies were sold.  I am a person of modest means and little time to train her myself.  She was 3 years old, working great on the sleeve and doing OB work.  I did not have the time to do the tracking.  I had the litter to send her to CA to be trained and titled there."
may I ask how many dogs you have at your house right now that you train every week.  why instead of having multiple dogs that you don't have the time or money to train and get titled. Why not limit yourself to 1 dog and do it right, title the dog yourself instead of buying a title in California, so she can be nothing more than a breeding bitch, kept in a kennel, minimal human interaction, knocked up all the time, not working, except for a possible show here or there,  and charge $3500 for her pups?
What you are basically saying you just want to be another of the many puppy mills that already infest our nation. someone who cares not about the breed but how much you can make from them. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
to me that is not an ethical breeder.

Ulli the same can be said about Mals and Belgian ring, FR or KNPV. I just so happen to be trying to get my hands on a dog with KNPV dogs behind it. Harder to do in the GSD world but still quite possible. I cannot with a strait face say, our dogs would be better or worse without Schutzhund. I can say it would be better without show rings. I'd like to see the GSD world get more like the Dutchie and Mal breeders or even as far as the Border Collie people, who actually dissallow showing dogs and will not register those pups out of show titled parents. Who cares what it looks like (so long as you can tell it's a GSD) and it works, breed it! Screw shows, AKC and other kennel clubs that ruin breeds for the allmighty $.

Ulli, I respect those who still abide by the SV way of doing things, like Molly, Shelley, Chris and many others and wouldn't dare hesitate buying a pup from any of them, if they had a firecracker I was interested in. My dog comes from a loooooong line of Sch and IPO dogs, http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/487512.html go far enough back and you will find Slovach titles and KNPV from Teikerhook. Many countries have their own tests, who says  the US's has to be Schutzhund?


Jeff, many people here know my name. Now you do too.  Wasting your time...are you talking about Buko again? Hahahahaha

Oh... and I forgot to say his Dam wasn't titled when I bought my pup. She was being worked and was capable of titling and now look at her...Sch 2 working on her 3.

Hello Ulli, actually I enjoyed reading your posts and agree with you 100%.  You have made some excellent points.  I am into working line GSD's, but have owned conformation lines as well.  I have titled every dog I have owned from a puppy to a schH 3.  My other male was V rated, SchH 3, KKL1a, AD and OFA'd hips.  My female was a SchH 3 but never bred and never breed surveyed, but trialed many times.  My current dog is the Police K9 in my avatar, also raised by a puppy and Sch trained before converting him to my Police dog.  He was ready to start trialing and is a SchH 3 level dog in all areas, tracking, bitework and OB.  Currently my Police Dept won't let me compete with him unless it is a police dog trial, no SchH.  My next dog may be a conformation line dog, if I am happy with the working abilities of the parents because I will train and title the dog in SchH as well.  I totally agree with the SV standard for breeding GSD's.  I think the AKC has ruined the American Shepherd as well as labs and other retrievers.  When all a dog has to do is run around a ring and not bite a judge to be a champion, well that leaves a lot to be desired in my book.  I used to handle dogs at conformation shows and even the Sieger show in the US, but it has been several years.  I love a beautiful GSD, enjoy the movement, the look, etc....but it has to perform well in the bitework, tracking and OB for me.  I decided about 10 years ago that I preferred working line dogs with nice structure as I did more schH trials than conformation shows.  I like a hard dog that likes to work, that's just me.  I don't breed dogs, but I wouldn't look at a puppy from a litter if both parents weren't titled and I couldn't research their pedigree.  So you make an excellent point about the benefits of the SV system.    I wish the AKC was more in line with the SV, the dogs here in the states would certainly benefit.  

Hey Jeff, whose avatar were you referring too?  

Jim

Misbeeb, I love GSD's, all GSD's.  They are my favorite breed and always will be.  I love the dog on the PDB logo above the quick search box on the top right, he is gorgeous.  My wife loves black and red GSD's and wants a conformation line dog.  I am always looking for my next dog, who knows working or German Show lines?  We'll see, I know it will be a GSD that's for sure.

Jim