Pedigree Dogs Exposed Filmmaker Releases Extended Footage of German Shepherds - Page 36

Pacosbear, thanks for the kind words and you don't have to be "sorry" in reference to your comments contradicting mine....Missbeeb, I sent you a long pm that clearly dlineates in my opinion the problem and solution...feel free to share it with other that may have an open mind...not saying I am right but I think it makes sense but only youcan judge that. Thanks!

Wildmoor, no there is no truth in the charge that we withheld medication from the boxer and I find it hard to believe you found this claim anywhere online without mention, too, of our strong rebuttal.

This claim that was made up by someone in a deliberate attempt to discredit us. The boxer was filmed by its owner, not us, and we were not present at the time. The poor dog has cluster seizures, up to 16 in a 24hr period, despite being on strong medication. No need to withhold anything to see this dog fit.

As for using the canine genetics list for research, I would recommend it to anyone interested in the science of breeding dogs. As it states: "Open to discussion of canine genetics and at all levels of expertise. At times the discussions may be very high please strive to reach those levels here".

There's a wealth of information and expertise there - and an opportunity to "talk" with an amazing community of interntional scientists/geneticists/researchers who keep/breed purebred dogs and who feel as passionately as I do about them.. If you ever need a scientific reference - for everything from inbreeding avoidance in wolves to the genetics of the immune system - this is the best resource there is.  But of course it was not our only resource. We talked to everyone from pet owners to top breeders to the top experts in their field for every breed issue - oncologists, cardiologists, population geneticists, soft-tissue experts, orthopaedic vets etc.

Beetree - GSDs were in our original film for I think about 3 mins out of 59. There were many other breeds covered - and many other breeds that could have been. I will have a look at Irish wolfhounds - thank you for that information.

I am bowing out of this discussion now. I have to say that I am leaving with rather less faith in the future health of the GSD than I arrived - and I hope that some of the views expressed publicly here are not representative. But a big thank you to all those who have emailed me privately with messages of support and information about health problems.

If anyone would like to contact me direct they are very welcome to. Although please note I will not reply to rude and aggressive emails.

Jemima
www.passionateproductions.co.uk

I am curious why it is assumed that crossbreeds are less inbred than pedigree dogs?  I don't mean known first crosses, but general latch key mutts.  As a rule, a litter will be an unplanned one, sired by the current premier dog in the 'hood, the pups would almost certainly be homed locally and any females will be living in the same area and ripe for breeding less than a year later.  Since the sire will be the premier dog, through either strength or opportunity, until usurped by another male (most likely one of his own offspring), it is highly likely that he he will mate his daughters, granddaughters and even great granddaughters and since nobody tracks the pedigrees of these dogs, the average latchkey mongrel is probably more inbred than any pedigree dog.

Just another observation, when I worked for a very busy Vet surgery in East London (when I went for my job interview, what I thought was a rush hour bus queue outside was actually clients!), there would be just as many mongrels in the waiting room as purebred dogs, and that did not change in the 14 years I was there. 

Margaret N-J

I can't tell you how disappointed I am, Jemima.  I really hoped you would help us and I can't even get an honest "no" from you.

I'm sorry you're going with less faith than when you arrived but I think most of us probably feel the same... hopes dashed.
 
My feeling is, that your visits were a kind of field trip for info and I'm saddened that there's no inclination to assist only to condemn without proper investigation.

Jemima

Speechless, I have never been rude to you or agressive...........

I have questionned your motives as to why you have sought to upload footage ONLY of the GSD, to that and in my opinion I have had a very dissatisfacatory answer.   I have gathered opinion via asking various folks to read this thread, mainly not from the GSD world, to seek to understand what your motives are - from this limited research I can quote ( no figures gustav) "it is rather suspicious, there must be additional footage from all parts of the programme would guess there is at least as much additional on cavies, bull dogs and mastiffs as gsds."  and " why release footage only on the gsd"

As you quote to Beetree - "GSDs were in our original film for I think about 3 mins out of 59. " so why target them with extended footage???  Yes completely, I am questionnning your motives....... ? as I do actually care about the GSD.  You are not active on other boards with equal 'problems' - why is the gsd so special in your approach?  I have asked you to upload extended footage of other breeds, you sought not to do this...?

You are clearly able to 'see' the results of the upload,  and surely you have morals - by releasing such footage the reaction/impact it has, the opinions that are 'formed' - how does this protect the health and welfare of the breed, on what scienctific bases are the general public being educated to form such opionions?.  As you have sought NOT to present the 'other' side - the science that you quote is the basis of your films - where is the 'science' in this footage?  Again I ask where is the balance?

You are absolutely correct and I agree with you wholeheartedly that geniuine good breeders have absolutely nothing to fear from you or your productions - however some of those good breeders are here on this board,  with a wealth of information/realtime research on the GSD but are you prepared to listen, seek to 'understand' to aid your further programmes? 

Instead you sit in judgement and I quote "I have to say that I am leaving with rather less faith in the future health of the GSD than I arrived - and I hope that some of the views expressed publicly here are not representative. " rather than look towards 'helping' the breed through the medium you have available. 

I directly asked if you help the breed in the promotion of good health, you asked for additional information - wildmoor presented and asked what further info you needed - you sought once again not to answer?  So what are your motives?

This ultimately returns me to my original quote
"It appears that unless it is sensationalist, biased and selective then you do not want to know, as in previous posts it appears you are not prepared to further assist via the media." 

I suppose only time will tell, in what you produce so I just have to wait and see, all I can hope is that it is based on researched facts, from reputable sources and pertinent to the uk,  and ultimately it is presented clearly, to aid joe publics 'understanding' with balance in its approach.  It will certainly be interesting what emphasis is put on the GSD.

A rather disappointed.......

Liz
PS: and yes completely childish and I apologies before it is written,  but I feel the need to as I have been nothing but resonable in my posts -  in the words of an UK eighties song " when the going gets tough.............." you can fill in the blanks!

Maybe we're more of a problem... prepared to do our homework & research and prepared to challenge with more accurate information, facts & figures!  Could that be why Jemima wanted to know so much,  but part with so little?


 
 

JH there was no mention on your rebuttal in the only source online stating the boxer was withheld medication, if the boxer is as you state having as many as 16 seizures in 24hrs despite being on strong medication why has it not been pts?
You also state online that you and your partner filmed a lot of 'positive' footage within the 2 years but you sort to edit that out as it would distract from the 'negative' image you sort to release. I know of at least 1 canine genticist that is not happy after he gave you help/information and you distorted it.
Also online there is no published findings from the ethics committee reguarding your film on the people in Turkey that you filmed, if there is I would be interested in reading it.
Warning for those Breeders of the GSD who have contacted her and said they will help in her research
I have been informed that she has quoted several GSD breeders have contacted her willing to assist in her next programme due out later this year. Last time many breeders sort to help her only for their information to be missquoted/distorted. I am waiting for permission to post the source of this information. Last time she joined several dog forums, quoted certain health problems and sat back and waited for the onslaught. Some of these sites she joined under false pretences so be aware of her motives!



ps for everyone just incase she decides to delete her post I have saved to word as I am such many others have.

OK, Wildmoor,back for this one..

The boxer suffers from cluster seizures. They occur once a month. The rest of the time the dog's quality of life is good. He is much loved by his owners and they feel at the moment that the good outweighs the bad, although they know it is a close call. It can be very hard - for all of us - to know where to draw the line.

Which canine geneticist? It is impossible for me to answer the charge without know who it was, what they told me and how I distorted it.

The ethics committee ruling re the scientists (not the film-makers) featured in The Familly That Walk on All Fours ruled that there was no case to answer - that there was no breach of ethics. The judgement is not available online but you are of course free to check with the relevant bodies.

I have never joined a forum under false pretences - or, for that matter, under anything but my own name. I am happy to defend any charges so feel free to cite your sources.

Jemima

quote: Although please note I will not reply to rude and aggressive emails. - likewise you ignore non agressive and non rude posts!????

Liz