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by GSDPACK on 12 March 2009 - 20:03
Steve1: godness, you have to have a lot of time for thinking, rethinking and analyzing and what you wrote is interresting but where in the hell did see it in my post???
Maybe there is a language barrier or mabe my wording convinced you that that is what I wrote but I am going to make it simple.
ZVV3 has more things in training... more changes in discipline than ZVV1
SCHUTZ 1 and Schutz 3 has few changes that can be learned pretty fast.
When you are an experiendced, driven doghandler it is possible and we have seen it in a dog like Reno Jipome, that the Zvv 3 title can be put on a dog in 2 years (I call that good handler , and the handler MUST have a good relationship with the dog a goal and the dog probably has more inhim than video can show)
Not talking about the fact that this dog has Few Titles, He also has a Protection title.. why don't we see this dog in competition like IPO?? Schutz? simple.. the owner probably doesn't care.. this is hypothetical please I do not know the handler personaly. Maybe the handler does't like the Sporty part of Schutz. (taking too much into a detail like perfect position of a dog, constant eye contact and so on) This is analogy is based on my dislike in IPO, Schutz so I am not saying that this is the reason.
That doesn't mean that WUSV dogs are not good. I stated only that zvvis more demanding that is all, more things to do with a dog, harder to get than Schutz 3 and more realistic. Only the fact that Schutz is a pattern is not realistic.. it can be taught. Zvv has NO pattern in OB part.. At least when I trailed dogs I had to pay attention to the judge and make sure I turn where he tells me to.
Where in the hell did I write that The wusv dogs are not good????
I put my foot down on my last statement from a previous post because that is the cold hard truth and any person who trained dogs under ZVV rulebook will agree with me. That is all..
Maybe there is a language barrier or mabe my wording convinced you that that is what I wrote but I am going to make it simple.
ZVV3 has more things in training... more changes in discipline than ZVV1
SCHUTZ 1 and Schutz 3 has few changes that can be learned pretty fast.
When you are an experiendced, driven doghandler it is possible and we have seen it in a dog like Reno Jipome, that the Zvv 3 title can be put on a dog in 2 years (I call that good handler , and the handler MUST have a good relationship with the dog a goal and the dog probably has more inhim than video can show)
Not talking about the fact that this dog has Few Titles, He also has a Protection title.. why don't we see this dog in competition like IPO?? Schutz? simple.. the owner probably doesn't care.. this is hypothetical please I do not know the handler personaly. Maybe the handler does't like the Sporty part of Schutz. (taking too much into a detail like perfect position of a dog, constant eye contact and so on) This is analogy is based on my dislike in IPO, Schutz so I am not saying that this is the reason.
That doesn't mean that WUSV dogs are not good. I stated only that zvvis more demanding that is all, more things to do with a dog, harder to get than Schutz 3 and more realistic. Only the fact that Schutz is a pattern is not realistic.. it can be taught. Zvv has NO pattern in OB part.. At least when I trailed dogs I had to pay attention to the judge and make sure I turn where he tells me to.
Where in the hell did I write that The wusv dogs are not good????
I put my foot down on my last statement from a previous post because that is the cold hard truth and any person who trained dogs under ZVV rulebook will agree with me. That is all..
by steve1 on 12 March 2009 - 22:03
GSDPack
Where did i mention your name, so what are you blethering on about, i said some people i did not mention You
Now you clever lot of people,You talk a good fight but what have you yourselves done in this area And as for these dogs not getting it when it comes down to World class standard do not make me laugh they simply were not good enough
You can make all the excuses you like, Proof is in performance not the Yap without proof that is coming from one or two of you people
Talk is cheap but the proof is always inthe performance and nothing else counts
Rember Performances count not talk, that means nothing
Steve
by steve1 on 12 March 2009 - 22:03
This to be added to the above post
the Czech team in the WUSV since 1988 has scored
2007 2nd
1997 3rd
1988 2nd
Fantastic results do you think for 20 years competing in a sport of which is not so superieor as the way the Dogs are trained and handled in that country
and the above is what they have to show against dogs that compete at a lesser level than they are suposed to be trained
As i said proof is in the performace, not the talk that goes with it and they are some good talkers on this thread but you certainly lack the substance to match it, much like the dogs in those countries you are talking about
Because if you think these performances great then its time they called off the WUSV championships
I do not need to particpate any longer in this thread for for me in any sport it is facts and results which count not talk
Steve
the Czech team in the WUSV since 1988 has scored
2007 2nd
1997 3rd
1988 2nd
Fantastic results do you think for 20 years competing in a sport of which is not so superieor as the way the Dogs are trained and handled in that country
and the above is what they have to show against dogs that compete at a lesser level than they are suposed to be trained
As i said proof is in the performace, not the talk that goes with it and they are some good talkers on this thread but you certainly lack the substance to match it, much like the dogs in those countries you are talking about
Because if you think these performances great then its time they called off the WUSV championships
I do not need to particpate any longer in this thread for for me in any sport it is facts and results which count not talk
Steve
by GSDPACK on 13 March 2009 - 00:03
I do not care about WUSV and the results. I wish them good luck and so I do with the USA team.
The fact that Schutz 3 dog couldn't do ZVV3 title is just a FACT.
People can poke it, tweak it and do whatever they want with it the answer would be the same.
Every dog with drive can do it...
The fact that Schutz 3 dog couldn't do ZVV3 title is just a FACT.
People can poke it, tweak it and do whatever they want with it the answer would be the same.
Every dog with drive can do it...
by steve1 on 13 March 2009 - 07:03
GSD PACk
You talk for the sake of talking. and what comes out is not viable
simply because your remarks have no proof, You can carry on talking about somethings until doomsday but proof is what is needed and you provide none
Let me take this as an example and i mean it no other way than to put over what i mean
I was very good at Martial Arts when i was younger, in fact very good indeed, But i am just telling you this a stranger to me, and i would be stupid if i expected you to believe me, because i cannot produce proof to you in this instance. But this same sport earned me Medals and it was those medals i hocked to the pawnbroker to pay for the deposit for my first house i bought
and of that i can provide proof so that would mean i was good at the sport above and was not just talking for the sake of doing so
Now in turn this house gave me the settled life i did not really have to pursue my other hobby of PIgeon racing, of which i had done all my life but without having a settled place to keep them
Now once again i was a very good pigeon fancier indeed, even in those early days of moving loft from one place to another but once settled in a house things really went to town, I became very good indeed in fact among the very best in the UK
But you are a stranger and i am just talking and saying these things, why should you believe me, i am just saying it and talking
Then i move to Belgium to race the pigeons in a strange country and within three years we are again going to the top against all Europe and being recognized over here as very serious competitors. Now why should you believe me,
Simply because the results are there in black and white for all to see, and it is not just talk
So now we come back to the Dogs
The Czech dogs are no different from the dogs in other countries just because they do a slightly different form of sport it does not make them better, for if they do not compete against other countries in that same sport or phase, then there is no proof that they are better
Now what does prove the fact is this
They compete inthe WUSV championships, so they must think them worth while
But there results in this so called easy sport is not great.
Now you and another on here think the sport of SchH is easy , Me i am not experinced enough or have a dog old enough to get to World Championship level, and at my age i may never have, but one thing is certain, so long as i can stand up and walk i will keep trying to reach as high a standard as possible
But i guess you have so are you at the WUSV level with your dogs in this so called easy sport, if not then you should be as you say it is easy compared to the Czech system
But again let us see the proof, talk means nothing in any subject, anyone can do that. But can they back the talk up
I can in the two subjects above talk and performance and i may yet do the same with the German Shepherd, if i am allowed to live long enough, because i have the know how and handliing talent, and i have the drive and ambition to do it,
BUT; am i just talking, Perhaps i am for for this i have no proof, AS YET'
Steve
You talk for the sake of talking. and what comes out is not viable
simply because your remarks have no proof, You can carry on talking about somethings until doomsday but proof is what is needed and you provide none
Let me take this as an example and i mean it no other way than to put over what i mean
I was very good at Martial Arts when i was younger, in fact very good indeed, But i am just telling you this a stranger to me, and i would be stupid if i expected you to believe me, because i cannot produce proof to you in this instance. But this same sport earned me Medals and it was those medals i hocked to the pawnbroker to pay for the deposit for my first house i bought
and of that i can provide proof so that would mean i was good at the sport above and was not just talking for the sake of doing so
Now in turn this house gave me the settled life i did not really have to pursue my other hobby of PIgeon racing, of which i had done all my life but without having a settled place to keep them
Now once again i was a very good pigeon fancier indeed, even in those early days of moving loft from one place to another but once settled in a house things really went to town, I became very good indeed in fact among the very best in the UK
But you are a stranger and i am just talking and saying these things, why should you believe me, i am just saying it and talking
Then i move to Belgium to race the pigeons in a strange country and within three years we are again going to the top against all Europe and being recognized over here as very serious competitors. Now why should you believe me,
Simply because the results are there in black and white for all to see, and it is not just talk
So now we come back to the Dogs
The Czech dogs are no different from the dogs in other countries just because they do a slightly different form of sport it does not make them better, for if they do not compete against other countries in that same sport or phase, then there is no proof that they are better
Now what does prove the fact is this
They compete inthe WUSV championships, so they must think them worth while
But there results in this so called easy sport is not great.
Now you and another on here think the sport of SchH is easy , Me i am not experinced enough or have a dog old enough to get to World Championship level, and at my age i may never have, but one thing is certain, so long as i can stand up and walk i will keep trying to reach as high a standard as possible
But i guess you have so are you at the WUSV level with your dogs in this so called easy sport, if not then you should be as you say it is easy compared to the Czech system
But again let us see the proof, talk means nothing in any subject, anyone can do that. But can they back the talk up
I can in the two subjects above talk and performance and i may yet do the same with the German Shepherd, if i am allowed to live long enough, because i have the know how and handliing talent, and i have the drive and ambition to do it,
BUT; am i just talking, Perhaps i am for for this i have no proof, AS YET'
Steve
by GSDPACK on 13 March 2009 - 20:03
One More time
Nowhere in my posts I actually said that Schutz is easy.
Nowhere in my post I wrote that shutz is not demanding.
I wrote numerous times that ZVV3 is more demanding than Schutz3.
When you ever get a chance.. not just to be mean or anything like that.. See if you get to go to Moravia Championship, or Czech championship or Slovakian Championship in ZVV3, ZPO3 or ZPS3.
I do not understand why in the hell are you constantly putting some words in my mouth?!
Your argument is somewhat off the line because you are constantly trying to convince some people that this Orange is one BEST orange and Apples are shit.. well maybe for you ZVV is shit, maybe you are so experienced in trialing dogs under FCI rules tat I should bow in front of you because you and Vacha were havin Czech bear with the judge after obtaining his Title in ZVV3 in Czech champinship. You are talking about something that you have not Experienced, nor seen in full. You are talking about something YOU DO NOT KNOW stating that the prove is in WUSV Chart.
ARE you MAD???That is histerical.
Why are you fighting agaist something that you sort of heard about, like you've been doing it since you were pooping in you pants? When you tite dog in ZVV3 and prove ME that Schutz is MORE demanding than ZVV? maybe this discussion would be in place.. this way you are just plain misinformed victim of charts and me? Personally I ma gonna go track my dogs
You make me laugh
SOLOM good luck with you new pup
Nowhere in my posts I actually said that Schutz is easy.
Nowhere in my post I wrote that shutz is not demanding.
I wrote numerous times that ZVV3 is more demanding than Schutz3.
When you ever get a chance.. not just to be mean or anything like that.. See if you get to go to Moravia Championship, or Czech championship or Slovakian Championship in ZVV3, ZPO3 or ZPS3.
I do not understand why in the hell are you constantly putting some words in my mouth?!
Your argument is somewhat off the line because you are constantly trying to convince some people that this Orange is one BEST orange and Apples are shit.. well maybe for you ZVV is shit, maybe you are so experienced in trialing dogs under FCI rules tat I should bow in front of you because you and Vacha were havin Czech bear with the judge after obtaining his Title in ZVV3 in Czech champinship. You are talking about something that you have not Experienced, nor seen in full. You are talking about something YOU DO NOT KNOW stating that the prove is in WUSV Chart.
ARE you MAD???That is histerical.
Why are you fighting agaist something that you sort of heard about, like you've been doing it since you were pooping in you pants? When you tite dog in ZVV3 and prove ME that Schutz is MORE demanding than ZVV? maybe this discussion would be in place.. this way you are just plain misinformed victim of charts and me? Personally I ma gonna go track my dogs
You make me laugh
SOLOM good luck with you new pup
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