Advice please - Page 1

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by Rita on 27 May 2005 - 18:05

I have purchased a 1 year old female GSD from Canada. Payment was to be sharing of the first litter. I paid for the shipping. I told the seller that I wanted to train the dog in Schutzhund. When I received the dog I took her to training on several different occasions over the next two month. The dog shows no interest whatsoever in a tug, a ball or any kind of toy. She is also very stubborn in obedience. I have trained Schutzhund for over 30 years and titled several dogs. I contacted the seller about one month ago and told her that I was not satisfied with this dog and wanted to return her. The seller told me about a number of personal problems and that she had no room to take the dog back. Then she emailed me that she had a buyer and the dog would be out of here soon. Now, it has been a month since then and the dog is still here. I told the seller that I was not a boarding facility and needed to send the dog back asap. Shipping to be paid by her owner. I don't have an actual address of the seller since she moved from her last place, so I can only contact her by email. She has not responded to my emails anymore and I now wonder what kind of obligation I have to keep this dog. I have no papers on her and I can't keep her. The last email I received from her was on May 18, stating that the dog would be shipped as soon as she would receive the money for the dog. No answer to any of my emails since. I told her that I would not keep her after June 1st. Is it within my rights to take this dog to a shelter, since the owner is making no attempt to collect her? Please advice. She was supposed to send me a contract but never did. My email is arras@frontiernet.net

by Kougar on 27 May 2005 - 18:05

to quote: Is it within my rights to take this dog to a shelter, since the owner is making no attempt to collect her? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What is legal is one thing, what is moral and ethical is another. A breeder talking about dumping a dog in a shelter? At the very least, spay the dog and put her in a pet home for the cost of the spay.

by s_vargas on 27 May 2005 - 20:05

I think a shelter should not be an option. Why not consider sending the dog to a trainer that has experience with problem dogs. Or just give her to a good home, with full disclosure of why you are not keeping her of course. But do not send the dog to a shelter. I am sure there are several people out there who would be willing to take this dog off your hands.

ZVZW

by ZVZW on 27 May 2005 - 20:05

If you bought this dog then you are the owner,as well if youre even deciding to put this dog in a pound, how ethical or caring are you? How sad that because you dont have anything{papers}that you just send off a dog, and SchH for 30 years? Thats so beyond me.sheesh. Jerry

by Het on 27 May 2005 - 20:05

You don't own the dog....I am asuming that she has not had her first litter that you were going to share for the purchase price of her. You also have no contract...what you can do is charge her a boarding fee for the amount of time that you have had the dog after she said the dog would leave. But you still have a dog with no papers ect...no real address ect. so you can't even have a lawyer send her this paperwork of boarding moneys due. You need to send her a certified letter letting her know that you are charging her such amount of money for boarding starting from such and such date. If you get rid of the dog befor payment "half of the first litter" then you are in breach of contract and she could sue you for that amount of money. Be careful Heather

by Rita on 27 May 2005 - 20:05

Thank you for the input, I will try and find a pet home for her. When I was talking about a shelter I was not talking of animal control but of a no-kill shelter that we have in our area. They spay the dogs and find homes for them. While the dog is at the shelter a trainer works with them on obedience. In the meantime I had someone offer to take her if the owner doesn't respond.

by Blitzen on 27 May 2005 - 20:05

Amen to Kougar, Vargas, ZVZW. You are a cold hearted person, Rita. Give the poor dog a break and find her a good home. Maybe if you say where you live someone on this list would help you find her a home. She did nothing wrong other than not live up to your expectations, why not give her the best chance at having a good life as someone's loving companion? Taking her to a shelter is the path of least resistance for you, but certainly not a very kind thing to do to an innocent animal. Please don't breed anymore GSD's, they are not livestock and should not be treated as such. This makes me physically ill.

by SGBH on 27 May 2005 - 21:05

"Amen to Kougar, Vargas, ZVZW." And Amen AGAIN. 30 Years in this business?????? Then act like. Take your lumps like a man, it certainly is not the DOG's fault you are in this predicament!

by D.H. on 27 May 2005 - 21:05

Hi guys I am the owner of this female. First of all, Rita was away until the 25th, at least so she wrote me. It is now 2 days past the 25th. Second, June 1st is not here yet. Third, Rita was told right away that I will take the female back and that she should return her. Back to me was not an option at the time because I was inbetween houses and with the move pending, there was no room. There was the option to send her to friends of mine, or to Germany. Rita, however, refused to pay return shipping. Period! Regardless where to. Which is customary in such cases. So I offered the option to see that I can place her so that the new owner can then pay shipping. Which is excatly what happened. But these things to NOT happen overnight! I believe this option was rather fair and lenient given the circumstances. Fourth, when Rita and I agreed on the purchase, she did not have to pay a SINGLE DIME for this this female other than shipping. Because Rita did not have the funds available at the time, this dog was placed in good faith that payment would follow out of her first litter. If I had unsure that this female would be able to achieve a title I would have NEVER placed her in such a situation. And I expected that she would be cared for properly. I am very doubtful about that now! People in this site often ask why they cannot receive a dog first, make payment later. Well, here you have the perfect example why! This female was whelped at my kennel and raised by me until she was shipped out. The whole litter is doing very well and all pups have gone to working homes. This female has never shown any of the traits she is displaying at Rita's kennel, except for being a bit stubborn, which Rita was told about. Any half decent trainer can work with that. cont...

by D.H. on 27 May 2005 - 21:05

cont... Sometimes the chemistry is not right between a dog and a new owner, this is why I immideately said I would take her back. Regardless of the reasons. If a dog is not working out, owner and dog will be unhappy and the situation is bad. Regardless of why and how. The dog has to get out of there. When I heard some examples though why this female was not working out, it became clear that no bond and no respect had been established yet. This female will not play with Rita. She has never had a problem with that here. Her recall is apparently no good, which does leave me wondering about the actual training knowledge present there... Any young dog that is ALLOWED to "only come when she feels like it" is not in a proper training environment. Any young dog needs to be secured with a 10 meter leash during such training exercises to learn that not coming is never going to be an option. And the exercise then needs to be reinforced properly with a reward, as in this case this female is crazy for food and she will ALWAYS come or comply in order to claim her prize. Only after the dog is secure in a particular exercise do you move on to off-leash. Even in a casual situation, where the dog may run free you need to stay within the dogs limits. And especially then - reward. I never go out with any dog, even for a stroll on the beach, without a reward in my pockets. I had sent Rita video clips of this female where she shows a very good recall even under distraction. Finally, my mailing address has stayed the same, so has my phone number. I have not received any calls (call display and call logging is active on my line, which is independent of any physical location because it is a broadband internet phone), just the odd mail telling me how urgent this matter is. I have been well aware of this, but you know, people do have lives. I do, especially since I just moved, and am still unpacking, getting things organized here. And the new owner does, who I have not been able to connect with over the last few days to finalize details. Rita - your urgency is rather uncalled for. If you would have returned this female right away on your dime, which you should have in the first place, this would never have been an issue. I cannot be expected to work on your schedule and to your demands, but I have been trying my best to accommodate you. Which is more than most people would have ever done! The flight is booked - collect as you had requested - at the time of day you had requested - from the airport you had requested - within the time frame you had requested. I expect my dog to be on that plane safe and sound on June 1st!





 


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