Who are our new USA Sieger + Siegerin? - Page 10

Mystere, another question and I will tell you right up front that my experiece is with Am. S/L. No trial titles, a couple of placings at WDA conformation shows. Lots of experience as officer  GSDCA speciality club and putting on shows. I'm newly entered in "German" dogs and trying to learn.

You say you are a working person. How have your dogs been judged on anatomy. Any V or VA on a national level. Just curious and hope this isn't taken as offensive.

Rik 

ETA: I agree 100% that the GSD should be a working dog first. What burns my A** is all you "experts" who take sniper shots from behind very good dogs like Boy and Ork and make no effort to put your own dogs/breeding out there for the world to judge. The world is made up of "fakers" and "shakers". 

Those who put their dogs on display are shakers, regardless of the dogs performance.

The ones sitting behind a key board taking pot shots are fakers. If you have a "better idea", put it on a leash and let us see it. 

Mystery:
Please re-read my post.  I AM part of the problem, freely admitted.  My only titled female (sch 1) was trailed in CA last spring by a hired trainer.  She is 4 1/2 now.   She has not competed in a Sieger Show, probably never will as she is not Sieger Show material as I see it.  She has the bite work down pat, but she is smaller and would defiantly place at the end for lack of conformation.   She is my "foundation female" and I want to continue training her to sch 2.   If I can get her wonderful temperment and working ability in a pup with better conformation, I might have a contender for a high V.  

 I co-own the 2nd place 12-18 month old female in this years Sieger Show.  Since she is co-owned, I have no authourity in where and by whom she is titled, only responsible for my half of the fees.

My third dog is a 12 week old female puppy out of my older female and Ingodd's Albert.  She is the one I want to totally HOT train.  So far, she is everything her mom was at this age but with better conformation.

I have a neutered male that is now 6.  He has EPI and a poor temperment. 

My previous experience with working dogs includes 7 years with a sentry dog service in Chicago working with Am Breed GSDs, Rottis, dobes, akitas, great danes and the rare bad tempered dalmation.  In the early years, the kennel consisted of GSDs intitally breed for the AKC show ring.  The kennel owner would not breed to the newer over angulated AKC style and concieved the sentry business as an alternative to her breeding program and failed boarding kennel (people did not pick up their pets).  By the time I was employed, she no longer breed dogs,  there were enough people abandoning dogs on her doorstep and local vets and humane societies with dogs that could not be re-homed to replace retiring dogs.  I helped re-train dogs, cleaned kennels, helped with the vet duties and eventually become a delievery person to our clients.   I handled dogs that had been so badly abused by humans, they could not be touched by human hands as they trusted no one.  All were treated well with health care and vet visits,  most lived to be over 12 years old after retiring at the age of 7. None of these dogs had a title, but were working dogs non the less. 

I have only just begun to get get involved in sch and showing.  I can see there are problems I never even concieved when I started this adventure five years ago.   The problems range from the lack of training/support for newbs to the lack of interest in developing the correct working ability in show dogs from both breeders and helpers and a lack of good supportive clubs.  My biggest shock is the division between working and show people.  Its as bad as the republicans and the democrats.  So much more can be accomplished by co-operation and collaboration for this breed, but we strive for personal gain and the need to be right that we don't see the other side.   So the breed suffers, the organization suffers and the people get feed up and quit or become complainers on this board. 

My show work  experience is limited to being the local co-ordinator for this years SS.    Quite a big bite for someone that has never even organized a local show and prety much fell into the deep end of the pool.   Considering this is the first show in quite sometime that made a profit, I consider it a success. However, I do not pretend to believe it was only the local help, USA organization, show secretary or the breed warden that made it so, it was the entire team.   It takes a dedicated team, communication and organization to be succesfu

Rik?  To whom are you referring?

Charlene, So, in other words, you don't train, have never TRIALED , NEVER titled diddly, have never served as a show secretary, have not surveyed a dog, yet, in typical fear-biter fashion, you get in my face about what *I've* done in the sport???? Yes, you ARE part of the problem. ¶ Rik, I have never shown a dog on a national level and have no intention of even thinking of doing so any time in the future. Given the VAs I have seen, and the mentality of 90% of those who own them, I hope NEVER to own one. I value a dog's temperament, character and working ability first and foremost. Those are not, apparently, the same values as one who wishes to exhibit.

I am at training almost every weekend.   I put the bite work foundation and obiedence foundation on my female for three years when I needed someone better than I to finish the training I did not have the knowledge and skills to do.   With the lack of trianers and oppurtunity, this is a course many are forced to take.      I am trying to do things right by becoming involved in a new formed club with a good helper, willing to really take the time to train the trainer and is not scared of competition but welcomes it.  This club may fall without good leadership as many I have seen do.  However, its the new people with energy and enthusiasiam that can breath life into an organization where the old members are throwing in the towel and do nothing but bash the system and the new people involved.    This doesn't create growth or promote the breed, it tears it down. 

In my mind you are the one fear bitting, you take one snippet of a post and rip the shit out of it and the person posting.   This is not teaching or guiding anyone.   You show no respect whatsoever to someone that wants to learn and be involved.

  My advice,   grow up and learn how to read an entire post.  Quit being in attack mode 24/7.   Then take a course in constructive critizism and how to motivate people.  Your pessimistic negative attitude is a total deterent to people.  Its seems your goal in life is to bring people down, perhaps your wish is to tear USA down and laugh about it.  If this is where you find joy in life, I feel very sorry for you and your family.    You can be more than this self absorbed hyper crtitical person if you choose to be.  You can teach, giude and inspire, yet you choose to do the opposite.  My only assumption is that someone hurt you badly in this sport to make you such a negative and bitter person.  Take some time to heal yourself spiritually and come back as a person we can look up too rather than run the other direction from.  In the end you do not hurt me or RIK, you hurt yourself.  RIK and I can move on to bigger and better if we so choose and learn this sport from caring and knowledgable people willing to share experiences and training tools.   I have delt with bigger and badder than you can ever hope to be and survived.  A few negative words on a board are inconsequential except to my perception on you as a human being.

You are the one that has quit, not I.

Typical fear-biter blather. I as much as predicted it and sure enough, you lived down to my expectations...as usual.

 I see a well-thought-out post from someone who has put their time and energy where their mouth is.  I see another two-sentence reply containing nothing but personal insults, no constructive information or any value added.

Just sayin'.

A suggestion that actual trial performance become part of the process is so frightening that it led, as expected, to fear-biter personal attacks, including the "usual" pathetic "unhappy" crap. It deserves the dismissal it received. It is the typical fear-biter response in discussions of the short-comings apparent in the show ring. It is the same thing every year, just a different "target" for the misplaced frustration. Accept your dogs for what they are and enjoy them. I am through with this thread.

Baldursmom -- very good post.

Mystere - go away -- far, far away.

I offered an explaination of why your suggestion can not come to fruition and offered an alternative means to the same ends by challenge the membership to enter more working dogs and properly train their show dogs.  I gave examples of individuals that have done just that and should be held up as examples and leaders.    I pointed out that it is each members duty to uphold the current rules as they stand which require titles, honestly gained, to compete for the title of Sieger and a trail performance to gain the title of Universal Sieger.   People should take pride in showing/trailing a great working animal regardless of the placement in the ranks.   I admitted guilt to not personally training my bitch to her sch 1 and have outlined my shortcomings and goals for the future so that I can look myself in the mirror and say I did my best.
If that qualifies as fear bitting, then I am guilty, and damn proud of it.