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by forbes on 30 May 2009 - 04:05
by GSDguy08 on 30 May 2009 - 12:05
by Held on 01 June 2009 - 18:06
by RDH on 01 June 2009 - 22:06
by RDH on 01 June 2009 - 23:06
I'm looking for a dog that can handle alot of pressure and can handle real life scenario(s). PSA deals with majority of that and french ring is a very difficult sport. Another thing i will like to do with a gsd. I spoke to Koos and he said many of his dogs compete in french ring that is why i inquired about the tiekerhook breedings. Even in the USA breeding he is bring to the states the pups are $2500 with a guarantee. To me that is alot of money for a puppy in my situation and to be 100% committed to compete in french ring for that price. I'm still shopping around. The breedings aren't taking place til the end of the year. I hope to see some of these dogs work!!!
by Vikram on 02 June 2009 - 12:06
by TessJ10 on 02 June 2009 - 12:06
Sadly, this is true in SOME dogs, although I'd say dogs in general and certainly not single out showlines. Unfortunately I know a case where a real dynamite SchH-titled dog's female owner was beaten in her home. I figured her dog had been in his crate but she told me that no, he was right there and didn't do a thing, just ran around. Fortunately the woman was able to break away and run outside and ran to a neighboring house. I could not believe it but she said it was true. SchH is a sport and yes, there are many dogs who won't touch anyone w/o a sleeve and of course will only bite a sleeve. Well, really, c'mon, we TEACH them that! We insist that they NEVER bite anything except a sleeve.
At our club we've brought in an outside trainer with a hidden sleeve to test dogs' protective reactions when it's owner is threatened. Still not personal protection training, but something other than just "you must never, never, ever bite unless it's an arm in a sleeve."
by Red Sable on 02 June 2009 - 13:06
That is very disappointing Tess. Was she surprised at her dogs reaction?
Schutzhund is supposed to be a test to see if a dog is capable of protecting is it not? It is failing us. All these dogs with ScHIII titles, that can hit a sleeve lightening fast with great impact, doesn't mean much if they won't protect their master.
So, is it the social friendly golden type shepherds we are breeding these days or the way they are trained or both?
How many here have titled dogs that are sure they would protect them if need be?
by TessJ10 on 02 June 2009 - 13:06
Yes, she was. I've seen this dog and he rocks in SchH. I don't understand it. Maybe on the street with a stranger.....but in the home with someone the dog knew???? Maybe that was it, but still...... [edited to clarify: maybe he would protect her on the street with a stranger attacking, but did not because the attacker was someone he knew and also lived with?]. So I guess we must never be attacked by someone the dog has seen before!
I've only known one person who had a dog trained for PP. He paid to have it trained as a protector for his wife. This was a Dobe and the loveliest, friendliest family dog, but if she gave the command, you would be bit. Obviously this is not something to play with, but he insisted one time that she try to get the dog to bite him, since the dog did like him & knew him. She refused, since after the dog was trained, she also spent time with the trainer learning how to work with her dog, and of course it's emphasized DON'T mess around, this training isn't a parlor trick.
Anyway, husband badgered her and she gave in, told the dog to get hubby and bam! hubby was thoroughly bit and then guarded until released. Husband told me the story himself and was sore for a week but he laughed and said it was his own fault and it proved his training money was well spent, so he was happy.
by RDH on 02 June 2009 - 16:06
Red stable and TessJ10---That is why I had a thread a few months ago inregards to pricing based on titles. After watching those leerburg videos and his reasoning its pointless for me to pay for a dog with parents that have titles. My friend and I came to the conclusion that if a dog can't protect its family and handler then we personally aren't interested. Titles are second in our books. Practically any gsd can get a Schutzhund title. I wonder can they handle the pressure in PSA. Probably not too many. With my understanding of the videos if your dog doesn't genetically have prey + defense drive=fight drive then 9/10 it will not protect you it will run away. Leerburg states that showlines do not have defensive and fight drive genetically. The video(s) Ive seen were working dogs so.....i can't voice too much of a opinion. I'm just saying his reasoning in the video(s) make logical since to me.
TessJ10 sorry to hear what happen to that lady but if i had a dog i better and he better expect to do something if i was in that situation. That is what I'm looking to train for with my dog to conquer scenario(s) under any kind of pressure. In my area we have a event that goes on once a year where decoy(s) come test your dog in different real life scenario. (dogs do get titles, prizes, trophies,etc) I plan to compete in one of those events when the dog is ready (its a true test to me). My friend got in a fight with two people and she had her dog(dutchie) with her, which is protection train. He got his first live bite and he bite the guy full and hard while he was hitting the dog with a metal botan the guy did give up (long story to explain), but anyways the only default the dog has now it during training he does avoidance with certain objects that decoy presents.
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