Why Do People Breed GSD's W No Titles And KkLs???? - Page 5

**Deciding on proper temperament and drives for your own dogs for breeding does not come anywhere close to testing them for temperament, drive and nerve in a working venue on a strange field, helper and impartial judge.**

if titles are so important to maintain proper breed temperament and working ability,  what the hell happened to the showlines? not just american dogs,  alot of the german showlines in the country have piss poor working ability and temperaments can be questionable.  there are some noteable showlines who have strong sound temperaments and working ability but they are few and far between.  alot of these dogs are SCH3.  these dogs being titled really does nothing for the credibility of the titles or the people who award them.

Uberland,
we have no time to title our dogs either. I work days, my husband works nights, we have two school age kids with one being a special needs child. We live far out, just going to and from work sometimes takes two hours one way.  I pay to have my dogs trained, titled and breed surveyed in Germany. We have taken a couple of dogs to Germany as 6 month olds and pay a monthly fee to have somebody raise them, usually if we can't decide which one to keep from a litter. I made the mistake once to raise two sisters and at the end, neither one worked out as they were too attached to each other. So, we swore that we would not do that again. So, that might be an option for you as well. Living in the country does not mean that you can't own titled dogs.
Chris

thank you Silbersee for being understanding.  for a long time I have wanted to send one of mine to germany to be titled,  but was cautious due to soo many horror stories you here about.

I am finally starting to make contacts with people who travel to germany and slovakia and have family over there.  I hope in the next year to be able to send a young dog to a trainer in germany. I don't want my dog to be given a title, I want it to actually earn the titles.  I have a couple girls who are just now a year old, one I hadn't gotten papers on cause her mother died shortly after being imported in whelp so it is taking some time(she passed before DNA was done for AKC paperwork),  the other has been very slow maturing, at a year she is just now starting to be interested in a tug toy and getting confident.

Uber Land, I am another one who understands.  I read all this this evening and any litter I have anything to do with breeding is certainly NOT to make money.  Since the late 80's I have bred 6 litters so yep that really makes me a big breeder and I guess a BYB at that.  Especiaslly since I am gearing up for the next phase.  I have been sitting back putting a breeding program together on paper and I am just now beginning to see it take shape.  When I started out in GSDs, which was in the 80's, I had a LEO K9 handler for a mentor.  I learned as much as I could from him before moving to the Dallas area.  I am not here to bash anyone or any club but I talked to people and went to a couple of different clubs and I could never find anyone to mentor me or give a damn whether I showed up or not or want to help me with my dogs.  Which goes into buying titled dogs.  I have seen several that barely knew their names much less any OB.  So no I'm sorry ScH and all those titles doesn't impress me much.  I got screwed on a lot of dogs that were supposedly this and that.....back in the day when I stood on my feet grooming little ankle biters to pay for my "hobby"  and even from known dog people I ended up with shit.  I left Dallas, moved back to the country and one day found a terrific breeder who sold me a nice male pup--the one in my avatar--when I first talked to him I specifically told him I did not want a sport dog; I wanted a sound, clear headed solid nerved dog--and that was just what I got.  And with a nice pedigree.  Later on I saw an ad for some puppies for sale. I stuck me neck out again and even tho I am not particularly into hock walkers I decided to talk to this lady.  She is now my mentor and her breeding program is geared toward SAR dogs.  She has been in the biz for over 30 years now and her mom a few years before that.  She mixes DDR, working lines and Am show lines and she sure produces some nice dogs.  I talked to someone on this board privately after I had bred my boy to one of her girls and said I would never do it again.  15 months later I have a different take because I see what was produced.  And yep I am really breeding this boy to death---he is 4 1/2 and has produced one litter.  By the way I've done all the health testing and all he lacks done now is DNA and that is on the calander.  So when I see medium sized dogs, bred to the standard doing real work such as Sar, Herding and Service Work, that's what impresses me.  So no excuses about the heat, the distance I would have to drive to a club or how I can barely walk across the WM parking lot much less do protection--which I really liked--no excuses.  I do what I do because I like it and I see a light at the end of the tunnel.  I've learned a lot on this board and one of the main things is that what I hear a lot of people saying to newbies--gotta be thick skinned.  I certainly never would have risked being flamed before because of my ways but now I don't care.  I'm the one who has to live with me and sleep at night and I do it just fine.  Especially when I see some of the BYB bred puppy mill dogs advertised on this site.  One more thing I wanted to add, like you Uber Land, I have been around a day or two and I think I know a working dog from a shit dog..............................................

vonissk and uber land out of the puppies you have produced how many of those in turn have produced puppies?  

Six breedings X puppies produced ?  Average 5 in litter 30 puppies @ $ 700.00 to 1000.00?  Potential of 30,000.00. Benefit of German Shepherd breed?  None.

 That is where i believe the working ability is lost.  Generations of breedings without proven working ability sold to pet homes, hobby breeding homes etc.   Then reproduced for generation after generation.

Yellowrose preaching OFA is laughable!!

well BGstout, I hadn't had a litter in 5 years, and I have bred a total of 6 litters before then of gsd. majority went to pet homes, were fixed.  I know of several who haven't been fixed, one family bought 4 dogs from me, and they have probably had 4 litters total out of them in south Texas(in 6 years), all their pups are sold with limited reg. and spay/nueter contracts. 1 male I sold local went on to be certified and active duty SAR male, he produced 1 litter and all of those pups have been fixed(6 pups in litter, and at least 5 are being trained in SAR and doing very well).  there is another breeder in the area with a female from me,  and Jim Bryce of Brycehaus gsd has another female from me, I don't think she has ever had puppies.

and I rarely sold my pups for over $500, so I don't see where you are getting at with the $ figures. 

and not to step on vonissk toes,  but his dog has only sired 1 litter.

BGstout: Because I am not ashamed of my numbers, I'll throw mine out there. I've produced 2 litters, 5 and 4 puppies, 2 from the first I owed to my importer. I've sold my pups from 800-1500 USD. From a titled, koered bitch, bred to a titled, koered male. I was unfortunate enough to have breeding issues with my bitch and the thousands a spent on vet bills, travel, stud fees, and the expenses of showing/titling her have not been made up. I retired her in the hole financially, thank you very much.

If a Dog gets its KKL1 or 11 it proves that it is of up to the standard as a whole, if it has ScHh1 2 or 3 so much the better, Why does it matter
It shows the owner has done his or hers very best to try and prove that the Dog they own is worthy to breed from, not only for what finances it may bring but to up hold the standard of the German Shepherd Dog
One thing which is not mentioned by Minka and pehaps never meant too was the Screening of the HIps and Elbows of the Dog before it is ever bred from

For me this is the biggest Sin of all, Not having the standard of Hips and Elbows before any dog is bred

This for me goes above all the titiles a Dog may have or get, and is of the most importance, that the joints be in the qualification for breeding, that i am most adamant on
Steve