I could have got him off with a simple break stick - Page 3

decoyD, Very interesting additional information. You must be very strong (your wife also) as well as being courageous. Although I mouthed off above like I knew what you were talking about, I admit I did not. I never heard of the break stick. I thought you were talking about just a "stick", not something you put in the mouth of the dog. I have always been told not to get in the middle of a dog fight. Certainly you cannot not do it on your own. It takes 2 people to separate 2 dogs, right? I have seen effectively the throwing of a bucket of cold water on the two fighting dogs. This would appear to be less likely to cause injury to the humans involved. It startles both dogs, they disengage and you grab the agressor. As far as the individual in the clip that had the dog hanging on his arm, I doubt really that he would have been able to straddle the dog and use the break stick without the dog biting him elsewhere. I doubt he could have done anything with the arm the dog had latched onto. I have a question for you. You have written that in your opinion a Pitbull should not do bitework. Are you referring also to all other "bull dog" breeds, such as Am Staffs, American Bull dogs? Or are you just referring to the Pit? Is the Pit an AKC breed? I don't have my AKC breed book with me. Look forward to receiving more insight.

More than strength (although it helps) experience and knowledge and the ability to stay calm will get the job done in seperating fighting dogs. Pouring cold or ice water on 2 Pits locked in combat will do nothing other than get them wet. Same with a couple of my GDS's If a person is alone and a fight breaks out, if one dog is chained one can get the free dog to the end of the chain space keep the slack taught and eventually they will go for new holds and you can seperate them. If you are alone and two lose dogs are in a serious fight, then you need to find a way to anchor one of the dogs to a kennel, tree, any secure source. Then once again get the free dog to the end of the slack and part when they go for new holds. If one of the dogs has quit and wants to get away, one person can then use the parting stick on the aggressor. One must be careful as the dog that wants to get away may be snapping wild at everything, BUT the other dog. If you have 2 serious dogs in combat and you are alone, it doesnt sound great, but you might have to let them go a while till they tire out and are much, much easier to handle. If my wife or daughter or any other experienced dogperson is with me and we have sticks, its simple to get any two dogs apart. In 1835 the English Parliament outlawed dogfighting. The activity was moved underground to the Staffordshire Mines. I do not believe in bite work for Pits or Staffs. The dogs were bred for Pit fighting and had to be handled by humans during combat. Back in the day any Pit that showed human aggression would be culled immediately. I have game Pits who couldnt be forced to bite a human, but would stop any of these garbage bred maneaters that make the media constantly and have caused BSL's. I have always believed that one should not try and make a breed do something it was not originally intended for. If there is a breed out there that can do an activity better than another breed, then the latter breed was not intedned for that activity. I have never seen a Pitbull that can compete at Schutzhund with a top level working GSD. I would never want an APBT to feel it was OK to bite a human. Neither adult or child. Ironically a PitBull and kids once seemed perfect together. Remember Pete from the Little Rascals and Our Gang Comedies? In 1898 the United Kennel Club began registering APBT's.Under C.Z Bennett. Standards were drawn up and rules regarding Dog Fights were established. In 1909 the ADBA American Dog Breeders Association set up its own registry. In 1935 the AKC finally decided to register the APBT.

The AKC wanted their own name for the breed, that didnt contain the word Pit. The AKC settled on the name Staffordshire Terrier, as so many ofthe dogs ancestors had come from that area of England. The first APBT to be AKC registered was Wheeler's Black Dinah. Since the mid 70's this wonderful breed has been so over bred and crossed and mixed and has grown at a much more dramatic rate than any other breed. In Denver in the 80's there was a reporter for channel 4 named Wendy that did a week long report on fighting Pits. Later she was arrested and sentenced as it was found out that she was finding BYB clowns and paying them to go on camera and fight their dogs. This is the type of garbage this poor breed has had to face. With Pitbulls the pedigree is more inportant than with any other breed. A TRUE Expert can just about tell anything from a dog's pedigree if it goes back a ways. The media has created a monster and now it feeds upon itself. I remember in the 70's when the media seemed to begin its sensationalism regarding Pitbulls. It was the begininning of people with issues seeking out Pits and Staffs with their own ideas and agendas. The only mentors the vast majority of these new owners (mostly wannabe tough guys and gang bangers) has is the local newspaper. Here a new owner can learn the secret techniques of true dog people.NOT I remember in the mid 80's the largest Television Station in Denver showed a Pitbull at the shelter. This dog looked fine, but had a very thin coat on it's tail. The vertebrate on the tail were visible and the Expert (Mr. Eric Sakatch) from the HSUS said these were notches that were carved in the tail. He went on to explain how dogfighters put a notch in their animal's tail after they win a fight, much like the old gunfighters did with their pistols. I knew that after this airs, every punk who sees this will go out and put notches in their Bulldog's tail. Ive had these dogs for more than 4 decades, yet only recently have I learned what a Bait dog is and what its used for. Im sure glad for the media to inform me on all these tips and techniques I seemed to have missed along the way. What is so very sad is as I type this, there are cruel morons out there actually doing this ridiculous Crap these misguided creeps print. What is wrong with our society? We have cops that wont even enter a drug trailer to see if a lost little girl is inside who is really still a baby. They allow a demon from hell to bury this angel alive, and now we dont know if his confession can be used? We have another demon who kills a mother, her boyfriend, a teen boy and a 9yr old child. Lets be careful to give him his rights. Animals who harm children should be put down hard and immediately and specially the Human animals who prey on our children.

I quickly looked over your response. I need to think how to answer. Very interesting. You are very interesting! And on the one side the videos may be at times controversial but do bring about communication and discussion. Hell! You got me out of the woods after hiding for some time. Sunny

I have very strong feelings on this subject. I have known many wonderful pit bulls. My first dog was half pit. She mothered everthing, She would bring me baby animals to show me and then go clean them and try to raise them. I live in No. California and just recently there has been one child killed, another child and two adults bit, by pit bulls. Of these, three were definatly the owner not knowing enough about dogs, any dogs, to see a problem coming. The sixty year old lady was bit by her own dog when her and her thirty year old son got into a shouting match. The dog went to defend the lady, and when she tried to stop the dog, the dog bit her. With the next lady, the animal control officer on the case reported that the owners had let the dog run the house, then when she did something the dog didn't want her to do, the dog bit her. The little girl got bit up very badly. In that case this dog was friendly with every child he met except this one. Every time this child went to play in her back yard the dog would attack the fence. The mother had stated her concerns to the owners and the owners refused to believe the dog would do anything and refused to do anything about it. I am sure that we have all seen similar situations and not just with pits. With the boy who was killed by his own dogs. The female was in heat. The mother was afraid to try to lock the dogs up, so instead she locked her boy in the basment and went shopping. The boy got out, went upstairs and was killed by the dogs. When the police got there the female was at the door and wouldn't let any one near the house so they had to shoot her. The male was found hiding in the closet. The first three cases were owner stupidity and they shouldn't own any dogs. On the last, the parents should both be brought on criminal charges for having dogs they knew were that aggressive and worse tring to breed them. The aftermath of this is all the good dogs being dumped at the shelter. Our local shelter has been packed. Both with pit bulls whose owners are suddenly afraid that their dogs are going to turn, these dogs range from six weeks to eight years old, and with dogs from families whose landlords have threatened to evict them if they dog get rid of the dog. These dog will pay the ultimate price for human stupidity. And people will never hear of the ENGLISH SETTER who put a child in ICU.

exactly anika! we need the media to report correctly we need people to understand dogs need training and socialization and we need breeders educating people properly. I had rottweilers for 16 years on top of my other dog experience I had to give up rottweilers here I moved to because I could not own one and get house ins I even had to list my GSD as an alsation! Never once had I had an agression problem in any of my rottweilers in any situation they were calm and well behaved under all circumstances. Whenever I did have a litter the potential buyers had to have the correct mindset to even be able to see the litter and then they were under the microscope before I would consider them as a rottweiler owner that is part of the problem the breeders that sell their GAURD dogs for the family protection! How can they protect your wife and children if they have to stay locked up or heavan forbid chained because they are unsocialized and vicious? have to write more later lightening has returned will return to finish.

One of the big problems in this area is that illegal pit fighting is rampant. The breeders of these dogs sell their non pick pups for cheap($50 or less) to unsuspecting, stupid people. People that have done no research on the breed and finding reputable breeders. They slso have no knowledge of dog behavior but think they know everything. What decoyD said about fighting dogs in the past not being alowed to show aggession towards humans is true. Sadly that doesn't hold true today with people that fight pits illegally. If the dog is human aggressive they just drag it to the fight on two chains instead of one. I talked to one breeder of fighting dogs, who lives in a state where holding pit fights is still legal. This breeder was horrified at the temperament of the dogs here. He said that where he comes from, dogs showing human aggession are killed. All this adds up to more dogs being killed for human stupidity and vanity. Of course, if all this leads to breed specific legislation then these type of people will go to other breed like German Shepherds and Rotts. We already have enough trouble with the reputation caused by poor breeders and irresponsible owners. I, also, had a hard time finding home insurance because I own German Shepherds and a Dobie X.

If GSD's are not permitted at a campground where we wish to stay, Blitz becomes a Greater Alsatain Sheepherder, imported and very, very rare. We have never been turned away. So far we have not been questioned by our insurance company, Nationwide, but if we are he will be one of those rare, imported sheepherders once again.

lol its so much easier to say that with a german showline than if you have an american line the red coloring those folks are willing to believe its not a gsd i have found. Nationwide tried to cancel me after four years of service because I had the rotts after I had an adjuster out to up insurence to cover the upgrades completed and he had met the dogs and their fabulous temperments didnt say a word to us went to head office and reported them. I threw a fit! Our regular ins guy fought for us too he was familiar with my dogs it had to get ugly before it was settled. Now where i live, I own a 300 year old historical home it is hard to find insurence for it even though it is in imaculate condition just due to what replacement costs for any problems that could happen to the home. So adding the "ins banned breeds" becomes impossible! Besides now I can walk my dog in public and not fear for his safty or have mothers cowering over their children in fright because of the images the public is fed about rottweilers! so bad few people breeders and poorly raised dogs kill it for everyone! I used to take my dogs everywhere and those that took the time to met them were profoundly enlightened i took the time to gently encourage and educate them otherwise to the plight of these breeds then I further increased by using them in search and rescue. We have to keep the public informed properly so that our dogs are safe and we can socialize and enjoy them. I get entirly angered when I see owners of little dogs sneeking them into stores and breaking every rule and law just because their precious snappy vicious ill mannered lil dog cannot do life threatening bites. I hate being approached my these little menaces who 9 times out of ten will sniff my dogs then snap at their faces! My mastiff's nose was bit and bleeding in one such incident the owner of the lil terror was angered when my dog merely brought her paw up and pinned the freak to the floor. I thought was remarkable forgivness and gentleness shown as the dog would have been but a morsel in her mouth size! well im off subject now on a pet peeve. just wish folks here took responsibility and proper care of their dogs and trained them no matter the breed age or size! oh and learn not to keep them away from people and dogs completely unsocialized for years then think they can take them out in public on a whim.

I have black GSDs and most people I meet have never seen them. One 'gentleman' explained to me how sorry he was that I was cheated by a breeder because GSDs didn't come in black so my dog must be a half breed. Most people I run into think that they are wolf hybrids, whos reputations around here are almost as bad as pits. One lady swore that a male pup was pure wolf and got mad at me for saying he wasn't. I'll bet people who own sables have the same problems. Has anyone noticed how many new liablity policies there are out there now for people with "dangerous" breeds? One good thing is that I have been hearing more non dog people talking about education and training being the key to reducing uncalled for bites. I was suprised and glad when a lady I know, who had been badly bit by a stray dog as a child, came up to me to discuss the problem. Her idea was instead of banning certain breeds was to have some sort of certification class that would show that the owners had the knowledge and skills to train and control their dogs. That is as close to the mark for fixing the problem that I can see. But how to implement something like that? Education is the key. How many bites would be avoided if people didn't walk straight up to strange dogs with direct eye contact, then try to pet them or grab them?