puppy mills... - Page 1

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by Brandoggy on 19 July 2005 - 18:07

Let's get your opinion: If a breeder buys dogs from Germany, has good pedigrees, doesn't show or title her dogs (but all in the pedigree have titles)..and she has FIVE females that she will breed this year in September(ish),(3 of them had puppies in January and february of this year) does that make her kennel a puppy mill? I am asking this because I almost bought a dog from her ..now I have come to find out about the above 5 females all to have pups at the same time..and she is "looking" for males to breed them to... Is this the"norm" in the breeding world?

by LuvCzechDawgz on 19 July 2005 - 19:07

1) The question is what relevancy does this have with your interest in the pup 2) Did you ask the lady if she trains or involved in any other way with the breed? 3) This can be common in the breeding world 4) You love to keep us entertained with your "naive" questions don't ya

by GSDLVR on 19 July 2005 - 19:07

Sounds like you have a gut instinct about her. When in doubt - research it out. I would ask if she has a breeder's license (have her fax/email you the proof), ask for credible references you can call/talk to. Do all the dogs/puppies have up-to-date shot records/worming/vet check ups (have her fax or email you the records)? Ask her how old her females are, how often she breeds them and what requirements she has for a stud male and for her own female to breed. How many puppies has she sold? Ask to see her puppy sale contract. Get serious with her - don't beat around the bush. Ask her direct questions and expect direct answers backed up with facts/proof. If you don't like the responses you get, then you know what you needed to know...and usually you can ask enough questions and get enough response to sniff out the rotten eggs...remember rotten eggs stink even from far away. You don't have to step in a basket of them to catch a whiff. *There are breeders out there that love the breed, want quality lines and breed them but don't really care about titling or showing their dogs - they just want to pass on the love of the breed and the quality to others. If this person is reputable, they won't be intimidated by your requests. I do suggest if you have any intention of showing or titling your new dog, do find a breeder who is educated in it and/or has done it. Hope this helps.

GSDNewbie

by GSDNewbie on 19 July 2005 - 19:07

will not be redundent, you know my opinion of her breedings and purposes behind them you never got the refund or the breeding promised did you? People need to breed and sell dogs it is a fact of life but to do it only for puppy money to live off of and not contribute to anything within the breed to me is a puppymill no matter what lines even though they do take care of thier dogs. They dont care where all these pups end up do not have a claim of taking them back when they are dumped after these PET owners cannot deal with a working breed of dog! hundreds of thier dogs being killed because they made money off the lil balls of fur. Any puppy maker that claims send a deposit you will get a puppy no questions asked is not a breeder I would ever deal with. Anyone can CREATE a litter that does not make a person a GSD Breeder. Now others will say puppymills are the worm infested overly bred poor lines starving medically challanged pups, they are puppy mills too puppy mill term originated of anyone dealing in puppy pet trade in mass litters not what kind of quality puppy pet trade. I bought my pup from a small breeder yes she makes money off them but she does not mass produce she chooses lines carefully and funnels the funds into her dogs improving them and showing. I am happy I chose her, she raised a great pup and was honest in her dealings. She took the time with each pup she does not startle or get fearful and is outgoing! I drool over a male she has bought even now she also asks for updates on the pup and has not forgotten her. reminds me I need to send her updated pictures as last time we spoke my gurl was awfully gawky stage and now she is going gorgeous again.

by Blitzen on 19 July 2005 - 19:07

I've seen that ad, Brandoggy. Buyer beware.

Brittany

by Brittany on 19 July 2005 - 20:07

Can you both send me the kennels website by email? Im curious into knowing what kennel you guys are talking about.

by Blitzen on 19 July 2005 - 20:07

Brandoggy, I wasn't aware of who the breeder was who kept your money, but now I know and am not too shocked. Anyway, if you live near Pittsburgh, why don't you try to make it to the NASS in October? Newbie, Sunshine, Charlie and his family and I will be there too. You will probably be able to meet up with some pretty decent breeders there and maybe find the dog of your dreams. I don't know the definition of a puppy mill or the number of litters per year one needs to breed to be classified as one. It might have more to do with the reasons from making 5 breedings in one or two months and how the resulting puppies are placed. Here in PA there is no shortage of GSD's and many end up in rescue every month, so IMO 5 litters in this area from untitled dogs is a lot of puppies. The reason I say from untitled dogs is that few interested in titling or showing will be interested in buying a dog from untitled parents bred by someone who has never gone to a trial. I think those well known German breeders who place dogs with US breeders who they know will not title and who breed multiple litters per year need to also own a share of the blame for the overpopulation of GSD's in this area. I also have to question what quality dog a well known breeder in Germany would send here to the states to only be used for breeding purposes and never titled. I'd guess it won't be pick of the litter or much other than pet quality.

GSDNewbie

by GSDNewbie on 19 July 2005 - 21:07

<< I too thought this but could not put it to words this well thanks Blitzen I wholeheartedly agree!! the quality being passed down and down the chain buy pet qaulity good line and breed that then so on for pet trade as No serious breeder of good lines would let good puppies go to this fate in life they would loose the pup not showing how good their breedings and dogs are right?

by Charlie Ivory on 19 July 2005 - 23:07

Trust me on this,when you have seen a puppy mill you will know it.They normaly have several different breeds of dogs pedigree does not matter as the paperwork is almost always false in one way or another, more often then not cages are stacked on top of cages and seldom cleaned if at all, no medical care is givin and most dogs arrive wherever it is they are going sick and under weight,almost always entire litters are sold at a time and not individual dogs.........Pretty sad state of affairs On the flip side,many well known breeders will breed their bitches back to back as long as they are old enough to breed and remain healthy.Some breeders skip heats to give the bitch a rest in between litters.I guess depending on who you ask there way is the way things should be done,be it here or in Germany. I'm not sure if I even know what this thread is about,or what the point is that is trying to be made.

by Brandoggy on 20 July 2005 - 00:07

Luvczech..I think this is a forum for people to ask others their "opinions", feelings, thoughts, and a place for the "newbies" to learn from the more experienced ones..so if someone has a question who is a newbie it may sound "naive" to the ones who are more experienced..it is people like you who make it hard for others to enjoy this forum..I myself live in a free country..we have freedom of speech which means if I have a question or want anothers opinion I am free to ask it. If you don't like the question move on, you are not required to comment on every post. I am not a breeder..so if my questions seem "naive" sorry..that is why I ask so I can learn from you experienced people. And if they entertain you great..





 


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