Your dogs are too fat !!!! - Page 1

We are killing our dogs with too much of "too good"  of a food. Pups grow too fast and develop bad hips. Pup(GSD) between 4-6 mo should not be heavier then his monthly age time 10 .  Nursing mothers of pups should get brake  from feeding (They must to go hunting so to speak). It has been shown that overeating even within the first 2 weeks of life can significantly affect the outcome of a puppy's hip conformation. You should always be able to feel the dogs ribs and prefferable to see last 2 ribs. If you don't , then your dog is too fat!!!!
STUDY THIS ARTICLE IF YOU CARE.
http://ilovemypet.com/jackart.html

 For the sake of GSD!!!
 Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

Very interesting article....<24% in puppies and less when mature.......does this mean dog do better on crappy kibble instead of the super high protein stuff?

 does this mean dog do better on crappy kibble instead of the super high protein stuff?

No, because the nutritional content is inappropriate aside from the number of calories.  Answer: feed at least decent quality, but *less*.  Ignore the instructions on the bag if you use kibble, and feed according to the dog's bodily condition -- if they show a proper tuck and you can easily feel ribs but they're not prominent, then the dog is at a healthy weight.  

I suspect a contributing problem is that people don't know what healthy weight on a dog looks like -- they think it's "too thin".

Prager, I have repeated the same message for years - to seemingly no avail. It is not just for our GSD, but all dogs should be raised in a manner that keeps them slender and fit. The visibility of certain ribs is a definite indication of a dog's physical fitness in regards to body fat.

One only needs to look at the sizes of the suggested servings found on the outside of a sack of kibble to see my point. I have raised and maintained dogs in excellent health by feeding much less than the suggested quantities. We must remember that these proposed servings sizes are suggested in order to sell more dog food - they do not ensure that a dog matures properly.

Best Regards,
Bob-O


(added the word "ribs")

Just try to tell my mother in law that!  She thinks that because Oakley is skinny, meaning I can feel her ribs easily and see them when she's got her head down (such as eating), that she's emaciated and is starving.  The funny thing about this is that she's not panicky at feeding time, doesn't go nuts about it.  I feed her about five cups...Well, that's not right, either, because the dish I use for a dog food scoop is just over half a cup...I guess it's closer to three to three and a half.  Her coat is shiny, her eyes are clear, and she's at ideal weight.  Her stools are firm.

By comparison, my stepson has a one year old Giant Malamute...The dog's been on Nutro Natural Premium Large breed puppy formula, still is, has loose stools, damn near starved to death while pregnant between seven months and nine months, and hit about 130 pounds by seven months.

He doesn't live with us, but I tried to advise him to change her food to something lower in protein, but the vet told him she was doing great on it.  She was healthy as far as condition, but in my opinion, she was growing way, way too fast, and then when she was bred (again because he hadn't got her spayed and was letting her run at large), she began to lose weight rapidly, still with the near diarrhea.  The vet again told him the food was good enough..."It's for puppies and she's growing puppies"...Lost six pups of nine...Very good food, doc...She's spayed now, thank God, but she should have been spayed before breeding, if he wasn't going to ensure that she not be bred..GGRRR!

Anyway, to make a long story short...I agree with Prager.  I have seen what 40% protein intake can do to a large breed pup, and I really hate to think about what that poor dog's hips might look like by now...She walks like they are loose or something, though you don't see it when she runs.  It's almost like she's packing a basketball between her legs, walking around it.

Oakley was raised on food that contained 26% protein, and she's now on 22% protein.  She's grown nice and steady, and is healthy, strong, and smart.

On the subject of fat dogs...Anyone ever seen a Jack Russel that weighed sixty pounds?  It is possible, if you feed it chocolate candy, human food, dog food, canned dog food, and whatever else all day, every day.  That's a case of abuse if ever I saw one.

Crys

I have always fed by condition, not by what the bag says...I don't even look at what it says most of the time.  There's no need.  If I switch a food, I watch condition at the ration they were fed before.  If that goes up or down, I adjust.

WHile I was gone on my trip, my hubby fed the dogs what he thought they should have...about five cups a day for Oakley, and the same for Misty, who's less than half her size.  Misty ballooned into a chubby sausage dog.  You couldn't find her ribs, and she was like a little wiener dog.  It's taken me about two months to get her back to where I can almost feel her ribs, and she doesn't have rolls anymore.  I am still only feeding her about one and a half cups of food day, because that's all she needs.  With regular exercise, she's shedding the excess weight slowly, which is the best way to do it, I think.  When she gets down where she should be, I'll adjust the food up just a bit, to maintain condition, unless the amount is correct for her when she gets there.  We'll see.

Keep putting this info out there.  There are thousands of people reading this list, as we all know.  If we can reach even a few people, then we have done our job.  Thumbs up to Prager and Bob-O...

Crys

How are you supposed to take a Very Very attentive mom away from her pups for a few hours, so she can "hunt"

If I did that to my mother dogs, they would stress out so bad their milk would dry up, I understand what you mean about feeding your growing pups, and not to over feed them, in fact I feed both a raw diet & a kibble, and I only feed adult dog food from day one to all my pups, it promotes slow growth and stronger bones.

I don't think mothers milk counts, mother nature wants a healthy animal, it's high protein kibble, after the pups go to their new homes that is the problem, all the high protein puppy foods out their, GSD's are not large breed, the are a medium sized dog.

 

 

Raw food promotes much slower growth. It's only about 17% protein on average. Fat content is whatever you give them. 

"I have seen what 40% protein intake can do to a large breed pup, and I really hate to think about what that poor dog's hips might look like by now..."

From the article: "Unlike other species, protein excess has not been demonstrated to negatively affect calcium metabolism or skeletal development in dogs."

The vet again told him the food was good enough..."It's for puppies and she's growing puppies"...Lost six pups of nine...Very good food, doc...

What was the vet thinking, not counseling against the pregnancy proceeding at such a young age?  It could do very real damage to a giant breed puppy.  One prostaglandin shot, followed with an abdominal ultrasound and careful monitoring to make sure there was no infection, and the dog could go on being a puppy instead of having her bodily reserves diverted into pregnancy.  

Then again, if the vet doesn't wince at a pregnancy at seven months in a large breed dog, I don't assume there's much knowledge or interest in canine health and nutrition.