pennHip VS OFA - Page 1

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by SchHFan on 20 December 2005 - 11:12

I would like to receive feedback concerning the best method (if one is better)for evaluating HD. Being a novice, both methods seem to have their own merits. If you have a preference of one method over the other please explain.

KYLE

by KYLE on 20 December 2005 - 15:12

PennHip gives a quantitative score related to the hips by physical measure. OFA gives a subjective opinion on the appearence of the hips. PennHip can be done at younger than 1 year of age. OFA is done at two years. OFA is accepted by United Schutzhund clubs of America (USA) and Penn Hip is not. I prefer PennHip because of the non subjective opinion and can be done at an earlier age. Kyle

Brittany

by Brittany on 20 December 2005 - 18:12

What is the point of xraying hips/elbows early and not wait until the dog has fully grown and is an adult?

GSDfan

by GSDfan on 20 December 2005 - 18:12

If I were dedicating my time and money into raising, training, showing and hopes for breeding I personally would like to know early.

by SGBH on 20 December 2005 - 18:12

PennHip can be done as young as 2 or 4 months old, if I am not mistaken. It measures laxity in the joints. But if you are dong the USA thing and Penn Hip is not accepted, it's a mute point. One thing I don't understand is the preliminary x-rays(unnecessary expense) that people pay for, that are going to use OFA.

KYLE

by KYLE on 20 December 2005 - 18:12

Exactly GSDfan, Germany "a" stamp is 1 year old for eval. Two years is a long time for validation. I'd like to hear of examples from folks who had prelim's that looked poor and got better over time. I would hypothesize that it is a small number that improved with time. Kyle

by SchHFan on 20 December 2005 - 22:12

Some how my messages keep getting submitted before I submit them. Thank you all for the comments. It appears that most favor PennHip. Kyle, you are so right about the "A" stamp at one year of age VS waiting two years for OFA. I also agree with the quantative VS subjective analysis of the x-rays. I haven't seen any recent data to suggest one method over the other has actually decreased the occurance of HD but would be interested in knowing if someone has this answer. What is the possibility that the USA membership could pursuade this organization to accept both methods, could the German's have been wrong all those years? Also is it true that with the DDR dogs, HD was almost non-existant? Did they wait for two years to x-ray?

by hexe on 21 December 2005 - 00:12

If you do PennHIP on a dog that's 24 months or older, you can have your vet double-load the film cassette, or copy the films, of the standard extension view that's taken in addition to the distraction view and then send one copy of the extension view films to OFA...that way, you get the additional info that PennHIP supplies WRT joint laxity, and can still get the OFA needed for USCA.

by SGBH on 21 December 2005 - 01:12

SchHFan writes: I haven't seen any recent data to suggest one method over the other has actually decreased the occurance of HD but would be interested in knowing if someone has this answer. ***************** Neither method/system is going to actually increase or decrease the occurance of HD. HD IS what it is. If it is present in the dog it IS, if it is not, it isn't. I would assume that you ment one method of DETECTION being more reliable or more predictable(in the case of PennHip) over another.

by D.H. on 21 December 2005 - 04:12

The OFA offers a summary view on their experience with prelims. "... For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. ..." Link: http://www.offa.org/hipprelim.html So yes, if you want to know if your efforts are going to be worth your while, prescreen. If you buy a young dog and go through all that expense and shipping and showing and training - definitely prescreen or wait with purchase until a-stamped. Also consider that the OFA does all dog breed, including those that mature before one year of age (ie Huskies can come into season as early as at 5 months with a second heat before one year of age), and breeds that mature well past their second birthday. The SV evaluates only GSDs. As to PennHip vs other methods... some call it the superior method. Interesting how the results can vary greatly between OFA and PennHip. There is no PennHip evaluation offered in Germany, so no comparison possible there except for imports. However, recently discussed this with my vet. He had x-rayed his own Labrador. OFA would have been a clear fail! So he never bothered to send it in. He does take good x-rays, and his evaluations are always on. Anyways, he also decided to PennHip. Since all PennHip evaluations must be submitted, surprise surprise, his dogs hips came back HD free. Makes me think... In the end its people taking the x-rays and a lot can go wrong there, and its people who do the evaluations... There is a new trend to prelim at around 4 months. Have tried it a few times, so far good results. One of my vets years ago could feel the joints in young pups and give a nearly 100% reliable predication of HD. Sadly he moved back to the UK. If there was no HD in DDR dogs back when the wall was still up then dogs bred from pure DDR lines today would have no HD, if one believes the purely genetic theory . Never mind that that is not the case, DDR line dogs today do get failing HD results or prescreens. DDR breeding was done much differently back then though. Dogs that would not measure up would not receive papers and not appear anywhere. At DDR times pups were not issued papers, instead young dogs were taken to a Sichtung (evaluation) at around a year or so and if considered worthy they would get papers, otherwise not. One way to get that perfect record ;o).





 


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