Shiloh Shepherds...Warlock/King Dobermans - Page 4

Okay, first off, I didn't see your thread about your roommates son until AFTER I responded to your outrageous claims on  this thread.  Secondly,  asking you to verify or substantiate your claims does not make us "a bunch of mean spirited morons", but resorting to name calling is very immature on your part.  Obviously this comes as a shock to you, but we don't just accept that Shilohs are capable of all that you claim just because you say so.  How can you make such a claim about a sport you know nothing about? 

 Yes, I'm sure if you look really hard at a lot of candidates, you might be able to find one or two standout Shilohs that not only were physically capable of doing the work, might actually have the necessary drives, that is,  if you could also find a trainer willing to devote the amount of time and attention that would be required to get the dog to  a SchH3.............under a very forgiving judge.....sure!.   The thing is many of us are really tired of people like you making claims about what dogs could do schutzhund when you haven't even held the leash of a schutzhund dog, let alone trained one.

I have tried herding with one of my GSDs, but I would NEVER presume to tell anyone else what dogs would or would not be good at herding since I myself am not knowledgable about herding.  That would be very disrespectful of me.

It is misleading, and  as far as I'm concerned  really shady, to tell newbies (even dummies who don't do their own homework), that these Shilohs are somehow representative of the original German Shepherd Dogs.  I have no problem with Shiloh enthusiasts loving their dogs, that's great.  Just stop the bullshit about these lumbering, slobbering, (but very sweet) dogs being anything close to what the German Shepherd Dog was meant to be - except in Tina's dreams.

As far as "truths" go, Sunsilver, just because Tina told you something, doesn't make it so.   Some of us actually think for ourselves.   Just like feeding RAW, you may not do it, but that doesn't make those of us who feed raw, wrong.

personally i have no problem with shiloh shepherds; they are not being passed off as gsds and have their own standard, so i have a 'live and let live' attitude about it all.  i did look into shiloh years ago and considered buying one but 2 things bothered me: 1) the high price - i think there is something inherently wrong with selling an new breed higher then a well established breed (last i saw prices were $1800 for pet quality and $2500 for breeding); and 2) the whole 'thing' is way too religious for me - i kept running into dogma - both christian and shiloh shepherd, which was just over the top for me, kind of felt cultish so i opted not to get involved with the breed. 

now after experiencing and researching gsds and gsd crosses i know that i like workiline gsds.  imo neither show (which imo focuses too much on appearance that it losses site of the whole dog meaning intelligence, drive and temp all seem to take 2nd place to appearance when the balance is what is truly important) nor crosses (which try to invigorate the breed)  provide any real - overall - improvement. you could point to this or that as being improved but it seems with every supposed improvement something else was lost which for me just isn't worth it so me i'll stick with workingline gsd

lady donna - i think the way to engage threads and posts here is to 'pick your battles' and as my nephew told me when he was about 5 "make like a duck" just don't take it too seriously and let the neg bs roll off you.  like it or not everyone has a right to express their pov and once you've read enough posts you'll begin to learn who you enjoy/benefit from reading, and who you'll just as soon pass on.  i'm here because i think it's worth it; there is lots a great info shared and there is lots of personal opinion which can be very interesting and provocative, and some down right crazymaking posts - pedigreedatabase has it all so fight if you want but you don't have to it up to you.

To Tina's credit, she doesnt market her dogs as 'GSDs'.  This is America and she has the right to design as she sees fit, for whatever reason. Though I dont see any improvement over  the GSD Working line dogs, which Ive had the graet pleasure to own years ago.

She developed a designer breed,  and markets it as such.    Id/ be curious of the hundreds/thousands of Shiloh puppies, just how many, if Any, were ever SchH 3 titled?   IPO 3?  Or even a PSA 1...which would demonstrate sound nerve, stability, some athleticism, and adherence to the true working standard, according to the founder of the GSD.

The Mamamute/Guardian Cross is evident in the plush coat & is stated on this Shiloh Breeder. 

Im sorry, they look nice & nothing wrong with them, just not for me.  And imo, no cpmparison to a well bred Working line Czech, DDr or W. German line dog.

http://www.shilohshepherddogs.com/

Anyone need or want a 'Great Shit' give me a call. Still taking orders & hope to have a litter on the ground soon.

http://www.shilohshepherds.org/documents/intro.pdf

3)The Shiloh Shepherd

too big and not angulated enough to please the Show Fancy, they nevertheless

still retained the intelligence and working ability of the Schutzhund dog, and

many were trained for police work and personal protection.

This is what I found online. I just couldn't  find any online that did police work. I think it would be interesting to see that.

In the early 1980 's I spent a lot of time in the Utica, Water town N.Y.area along the way and through my travels i saw a lot of extremely nice gsds.All in yards playing with kids and cows and all kinds of live stock.They were the most stunning dogs,rich in pigment top of the line and healthy looking. There was no doubt in my mind there was an exceptional breeder in the area.YES THEY WERE ON THE LARGE SIZE BUT NOT OVERLY LARGE.They were well put together dogs .Beauty and grace all lumped into one.A picture perfect..as i got more experienced and knowledgeable i realize that was the back yard of the Shiloh  playground .That was before she put the fix came into the mix. They were all still with the A K C at that time .For what it's worth the A K C Shilohs were  beautiful dogs at that time.As to where she took her lines after that ,that was her vision and her dream ..as I said in the   early 80's her dogs were near perfection..They all came from good pedigree all titled dogs..

Secret Samson Woo....MAW outcross.   According to the breed founder MAW stands for Malamute, American GSD, White GSD.

$5000 for poorly bred low content wolfdogs with a great number of health and temperment issues is highway robbery in my opinion.

K

AH but not an original AKC shiloh ..a mere mix breed!! of days gone by!!

Wow...you guys just make me shake my head!

Malemute=wolfdog??? SINCE WHEN??? YES< they have wolf blood in them, generations back, just like the Siberian Husky, and many other northern breeds.

Oh, and in case you didn't notice, Ironbark says Samson was also white GSD and American GSD, which means ONE THIRD Malamute, at the most!

I forget the details, but I believe he was used only three times in the breeding program.

He was not used in her early breeding ..I stand behind the fact that all the early shilohs were ecxceptionally great looking working dogs..

Yes wazzup, I agree. The AKC Shiloh of years ago was a different story.  

K