Breeder won't lift Limited registration - Page 4

That was an excellent post!

It has nothing to do with people being "suckers" as Rik so eloquently put it and I disagree the best German Shepherd breeders are NOT only located in Germany by a long shot.

If you don,t want to by a dog on limited regs then by all means don,t BUT don,t freak when some of us do? It,s between the buyer and the seller. I trust my breeder and have full faith in the contract I signed. Some people just have to get over it.

No, I don't think I would ever buy a dog on a limited registration.

I am more than willing to sign a contract guaranteeing I won't  breed a dog before a certain age, has attained  required health certs, working titles, etc., whatever the breeder and I agree upon at the point of purchase.   I think that's more than fair.

Here's the thing for me:  I don't really care much about the breeders contract/guarantees because I would only purchase a dog from someone who I know  is a stand up person that would work with me if the dog had genetic issues, contract/guarantee or not.   I require  the same trust and respect afforded to me  in return.

Don't sell someone a puppy if you think they are so less than honorable that they won't honor a signed contract,  don't expect dog purchasers to trust you more than you are willing to trust them.

 Sue's 2nd paragraph bears repeating. 

In fact, the last sentence of my guarantee states that in so many words. I had so much going on when I had the first litter (baby in NICU) that I actually forgot to send out half the contracts w/the puppies. I realized this many months later and asked the buyers why they didn't remind me. They all said something to the effect of "we weren't worried about it." You HAVE to have trust BOTH ways. 

As the breeder of this puppy that was bought as a pet on a pet price I feel that I need to detail some of what is being said here.

First and foremost the buyer "Sam" and I have been friends for over 6 years. I did trust her to own one of my puppies. I would have given full rights IF she had requested them in the beginning of the purchase. But that was not the case at that point, at that time. Sam and I went over my contract with me VERBALLY reading and pointing out all the requirements and warranties ( I do this everytime so there are no misunderstandings). I even went so far as to add a extra claus for SAM as to " IF at 24 months the said bitch was OFA hips, elbows and Heart and had no faults and good drives then I would lift the registration to full. This way if she did change her mind it was there. It was not until Sam had learned of a male dog that she had produced that turned out nice this has become a issue.She has been requesting me giving full rights ever since December. She was passing the pedigree around to my club members at the Christmas party at her house asking them what they thought of the pedigree. Funny thing was I was never asked.

Yes, Sam has worked with her dog on Obedience. AKC puppy S.T.A.R and AKC CGC I know cause I was the trainer in both cases. Sam works really hard with her female and has done wonderful. Sam has even done Tracking with her recently . I was very happy to hear that she was continuing her training. As to the contract { This is for people who buy Full registration - Limited status will be changed by seller only after proof of health test OFA hips, elbows, cardiac and a working title (Schh, Herding, Championship/rating, Service(police/S&R or 3 AKC or UKC titles. Therapy title can count as a AKC title). Sorry but S.T.A.R and CGC are AWARDS. As for parents Father has his UKC Championship, Rally title, Therapy title, and CD title. Mother is Rally titled, Therapy titled and working on her BH (yes double standed)

Continue.......

As far as the "DEFECTS " goes Yes, one puppy from that litter has come up with HD. Is that enought to though the whole breeding away? No since that has been the only puppy to come back with it. As for the parents both are OFA Hips, good, Elbows normal, and Hearts normal.

Sam stated on her post that "planning a repeat breeding of the same 2 dogs with full guarantee and taking deposits" Yes, I do have full warranties and guarantees for all my puppies ALWAYS have. If there is a problem such as HD then the dog must be spayed/nuetered and paper work must be sent to me with Vet letter head stating the dog has been then I will replace the dog. There is no problems as long as everyone does their part. Yes, this combination has had a waiting list now for over 8 months with deposits holding the buyers place. There is nothing wrong with that. As for the 3rd breeding it is a combination that many people like the first litter was sold by 5 weeks of age. The second litter, Sam had taken her puppy as we talked about since it was more laid back then the others (thus pet) . I held back the other two so I could pick my female at a older age.

Sam and I did talk about this matter once before at her house in January . And she stated that she wanted to "Show" her female and that was the problem why she wanted her full registration. I told Sam that she had up to 24 months to show her and advisted her that her female would not do good in AKC but rather UKC as she is a working line. Sam has been doing Comformation at a AKC club where I teach obedience. They both do very well in it but I stick to my words about going to UKC vs AKC.

As far as some of the comments made "Don't sell to someone you don't trust" I did trust her but she came to me for a PET nothing more that is why she recieved the laid back puppy. She wanted to do obedience with her and have her as a watch dog nothing more.

Sam as to your question What rights do I have for my paperwork? You have your papers, limited of coarse cause that is what you ask for and paid for. "What rights you have" All your rights are stated and signed in your contract (if you need another copy I will be more then happy to mail you one).

I am sorry for such a long post but I wanted to state my side of the story. I still think of Sam as a friend but know realize that it does not matter if you trust them when you sell a puppy . I am glad I was taught early on Friendship is friendship and business is business and paper work should always be signed.

PS I will not get in a piising match on this forum over this, the contract is in place and I will stand by it

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life"  Winston Churchill

 I don't really see what the problem is. I didn't see it in the first place and "Sam" has yet to clarify, so we all guessed. 

So, Barb, what you're saying is that nothing has changed, you are not, in fact, saying you will no longer lift the limited reg. due to health defects on a litter you are repeating. If I'm understanding correctly, if she titles the dog, and all checks out at 24mos. she can have her full registration. Right?

I have to say I think it's fair that if limited be changed to full, then pet price be raised to breeder price. It's really only fair to the breeder AND everyone else who paid up front for a dog w/full registration. Now, if there's a good reason this dog is not breedworthy, then all this goes out the window. 

Jenn in fact when I first heard of of the puppy having HD I fliped out!!! like any breeder does But then after talking with other breeders and reading post on the matter I realized that I over reacted. . So I decided to repeat the litter again .

As for the question of lifting the paper work Yes I HAD no problem with lifting the registration if the dog passed all the health screenings, were titled, and was a dog  of standard to the code for breeding. But Sam has not come to me and talked with me on this matter since January (funny I see her every Tuesday and even talked with her husband just the other day! yet nothing has been said BUT THIS POST)

Yes, She would have to pay the difference if she wanted full rights if everything else was ok.

Here's the thing for me: I don't really care much about the breeders contract/guarantees because I would only purchase a dog from someone who I know is a stand up person that would work with me if the dog had genetic issues, contract/guarantee or not. I require the same trust and respect afforded to me in return.

Don't sell someone a puppy if you think they are so less than honorable that they won't honor a signed contract, don't expect dog purchasers to trust you more than you are willing to trust them.

I agree, if I don't trust someone, I don't sell them a puppy. But life happens. So... what if the puppy buyer has an accidental litter out of a your pup? 

The first time that happened was with a puppy that I sold was before limited registration was an option--and in that case, the female I had sold had earned her Sch2 and was OFA'd. But the male was a young dog, no hip xrays and no title, from a litter that I co-owned but that wasn't in my kennel name. Grandpuppies of that breeding are still out there--being bred? I think so. The male never did get a title, and I'm not sure his hips were ever x-rayed.

The 2nd time that happened with a puppy I bred was in the last year. He was about 18 months old, no xrays, no title. The dam was even younger. I still trust the buyer--and I will be delighted to reverse the LR on his boy as soon as he has his hip certs and a performance title/certification. In the meantime, I feel a bit better knowing that the pups of my pups are not likely to be bred until/unless they get registered.

I really don't want to see my puppies or grandpuppies in the hands of someone I'd never sell a dog to. But, ultimatey, it is out of my control--I can only pick good owners on the front end. Nevertheles, I think it's important to do some due diligence to preserve the health and temperament of the breed by putting these minimum requirements in my contract.

If someone wants to buy a puppy from me and plans to show or do some other activity that requires full registration--I am always willing to discuss it and consider the situation. But in general, the person who objects to the LR is someone who expects to breed without the xrays or any working verification.

 "The 2nd time that happened with a puppy I bred was in the last year. He was about 18 months old, no xrays, no title. The dam was even younger." 

Ugh, I know, Christine, can you beLIEVE that guy?!
She was 17mos. old...not too much younger.

In all seriousness, Barb, your situation sounds like nothing more than a misunderstanding between you and "Sam." I think it's very telling that she has not been back on here. Maybe she knows she jumped the gun and you guys can smooth things over.