Top GSD Showline Males Currently Prepotent For Protection - Page 4

RS,
That is not going to happen for many reasons. 

RS,

If I understood Jim correctly he said they are not expected but he didn't say they shouldn't. Let me see if I still have it or I'm loosing it to Dementia, lol.

Ibrahim

This is to Dog1:

Since Ballack and Nilo protection/bite caught Jim's eye, maybe we should ad them to "Top showlines with good protection phase" !!!

Ibrahim

Blitzen,
I am sorry to hear that you weren't feeling well, but glad to hear that you are doing better. 

I'm sure my posts will make it seem as if I don't like SL dogs and that is not the case.  I just get frustrated when people talk about the great working ability of their SL dog at the SS then I see the video and it is far from great.  I suppose I hold our VA and V dogs at the National Breed Show to a higher standard than most of the SL people.  I love SL dogs and my wife would love to get one, she really loves their looks and temperament.  My working line dogs drive her nuts.  I have told her many times that she can get a SL dog and I will train, title and show it and she can walk it and snuggle with it.  That is in addition to a WL dog that I may get and not in place of another WL dog.  That is probably the only disagreement we have; when she says "I'm getting the next dog and it is going to be a SL."  I say "fine get as many as you like, I'm getting another (WL) dog very soon."

I checked the pedigree of Nilo, no surprise !!! his granfather is Quartz dei Templari, that shows how correct Dog1 was on Amigo vom Belgier and his good descendents and how strange that Nilo did well and caught an experienced eye !! lovely. One more notice, Nilo has an athletic agile build too.

Ibrahim

Ibrahim,
That is interesting.  Nilo did a very nice job and I hope he gets a lot of breedings.  I think people often miss good dogs by not looking past the VA dogs. 

Jim

I'm feeling much better, thank you.

That sounds like a fair exchange to me, slamdunc....a SL for a WL. 

"If so I would also include Tiras Roten Feld for a proven work producer with the lines behind him. He is getting older now so time is short to take advantage of his prowess. Although I can tell you I will be doing just that in the near future as well as Griff! Although Griff being young, Tiras will be first on my list.
Debby"

I too like Tiras, a lot! In fact, was looking to use him when I took my female to Germany in September. Decided on VA12 Ballack Worringer Rheinaue instead. Nice working track record: Germany's 2010, 2011 Universal Sieger, search and rescue work, and I liked what I saw with his bitework and attitude in Nurnberg.

"PS... does anyone have the contact information on Griff's owner?"

www.sinburgkennels.com

 

"I recall the video of the BSZS and remember the # 11 or 12 dog being very impressive, I can't think of his name now. The vast majority of the dogs at the BSZS were probably worse than the dogs on the videos here".

Agreement on this as well, although the test in Germany is certainly harder than at NASS. In Nurnberg, the dogs worked in a large stadium, with only a divider separating the males from the females. Bitework is happening at the same time on both sides of the divider. While barking, helper yelling or a dog is being told to "out" is happening on one side of the divider, clapping or cheering or announcements are happening on the other. I believe it is a good test for both the dogs and the handlers. The dogs also have a marked distance they are expected to heel to, dogs are driven approx. the same distance and it seems that most received a stick hit. I'm thinking the helpers at NASS are asked to "take it easy" on the dogs. This is not a great showcase for the dogs that are used to receiving pressure from the helper.

karen
 

Karen,
I agree with you and included a video of Ballack on the previous page.  He is a very nice dog, congratulations on breeding to him.  The helper work at the BSZS was consistently harder and more challenging on the dogs.  A large percentage of the dogs at the NASS would have been run off the field if that pressure was put on them.  I also agree that the helpers were probably asked to take it easy on the dogs at the NASS.  I made that statement earlier as well.  If you compare the helper work of the videos I posted of the BSZS and the videos posted of the NASS there is a huge difference.  When I stated the majority of the dogs at the BSZS were worse than the dogs on the videos I was only comparing 3 dogs from the NASS to the all of the BSZS dogs.  In all fairness you can not compare the BSZS to the NASS.  The quality and sheer number of entries of dogs at the BSZS is far superior to what we have at any of our SS's. 


Jim

Ballack is very nice. Saw him at the WUSV Universal Sieger in Linz. Good to very good grips, slow outs, and guarding could be much stronger; but, very fast in to the helper; I really liked that about him as it is atypical of most show lines. Griff too is showing speed in to the helper and high caliber work that is all too rare among show lines. The lack of proper preparation alone makes most of these dogs difficult to evaluate. And, with so little emphasis put on proper training and/or breeding of the best working show lines, it makes discussions of "prepotency for protection" a nigh impossible task. Kevin Nance