A discussion on kennel blindness - Page 13

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I suspect it will surprise you to learn that not only did I breed at one time--for a span of ten years

Then what happened ? What breed was this ?

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Yes, I have had dogs that were 1-2 and 2-2, some of them intentionally bred that way, and some which were said to be the result of accidental breedings. Some were phenomenal, and some were the stuff of nightmares.  And yes, without that kind of inbreeding, some good dogs in the breed would never have come to be--I could probably tot up a lengthy list of Haus Ming dogs, for instance, as that breeder has done quite a bit of inbreeding on Mink.  The trouble with inbreeding this way is that when it works, it's great, but when it doesn't, it's generally more of a train-wreck

Well, breeders should be responsible and cull. When you breed that tight, that is part of the deal. A breeders responsibility. Inox produced Lubeck, and what a nice dog that was. I am not sure what the problem is here, is it that you got a dog that was a cull ? Sorry, that should not have happened. However, Inox was a very nice GSD in the KNPV program, and Lubeck was awesome. With the way that so many people think of tight breeding, it starts to make sense that no one has produced a Inox, or Lubeck here in the states.

So, you are going after Daryl because you would have to confront these people personally ?

Jeff, if you would be so helpful as to point it out whenever one of 'these people' begins to post here on the forums in such a way as to create an image of an ethical, experienced, knowledgeable dog owner/trainer/handler and breeder who respects the breed, ESPECIALLY if they are so brazen as to start a thread that asks other board members to define kennel blindess, or ethical breeding practices, or something similar, I'll be happy to "go after" and confront them here as well. 

Daryl opened the door and invited everyone in to look over his dirty laundry when he initiated this 'discussion', so it's on him that it's being commented upon for being foul-smelling.  It could have all been avoided with a couple of checks to the AKC in a more timely fashion, and some OFA'd  x-rays before the first breeding for any of his dogs (or an a-stamped x-ray if he was determined to breed before the dog was 24 months old). 

It's quite telling that Daryl didn't go to someone whose breeding program resembled his when he went looking for dogs to buy--he went to breeders who title and x-ray their breeding stock. 

Oh, and Daryl, I never said the SV's minimum *breeding* age was 24 months--I said the minimum *breed survey* age is 24 months. Because it is.

So, all his dogs are useless then. Is this what you are saying ? I mean, we are in America. People are free to do as they please here..... well, sorta. I don't agree that he opened the door for you and others to tell everyone basically that his dogs are all worthless. 

Do you know for a fact that he has done nothing as far as checking out the dogs hips ? If you do, that would be something to point out as a fact.

Jeff,
Let's discuss facts: when exactly did you do bitework with Hutch. I for one don't believe you ever worked that dog.  How would you know what "juice" the dog has?

Yes, a dog with no papers and no health tests, no hip x rays is useless as a stud dog.  I'm sure Hutch is a nice pet, but that is it.  An ethical, responsible breeder would never breed him. 

slamdunc, go outside and ram your head into the first fence post you find. It will have the same affect as debating with Jeff or mini me daryl.

jmo,
Rik

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I suspect it will surprise you to learn that not only did I breed at one time--for a span of ten years

Then what happened ? What breed was this ?

What happened is that my situation changed, and that part of my life history ended. As to what breed(s)--racing-line Siberian Huskies, and what were then referred to as 'Alaskan' huskies, a term that  is now the name of a recognized breed, but which used to simply describe crosses between Siberians and a variety of other breeds or types: Walker hounds, greyhounds (that wasn't done for very long), GSDs, 'Alaskan village dogs' that were indiginous to the various native settlements (each village's dogs were unique to that community, though all shared some basic similar traits)...

Quote: 

Yes, I have had dogs that were 1-2 and 2-2, some of them intentionally bred that way, and some which were said to be the result of accidental breedings. Some were phenomenal, and some were the stuff of nightmares.  And yes, without that kind of inbreeding, some good dogs in the breed would never have come to be--I could probably tot up a lengthy list of Haus Ming dogs, for instance, as that breeder has done quite a bit of inbreeding on Mink.  The trouble with inbreeding this way is that when it works, it's great, but when it doesn't, it's generally more of a train-wreck

Well, breeders should be responsible and cull. When you breed that tight, that is part of the deal. A breeders responsibility. Inox produced Lubeck, and what a nice dog that was. I am not sure what the problem is here, is it that you got a dog that was a cull ? Sorry, that should not have happened. However, Inox was a very nice GSD in the KNPV program, and Lubeck was awesome. With the way that so many people think of tight breeding, it starts to make sense that no one has produced a Inox, or Lubeck here in the states.

Actually, Jeff, because there's no prohibition on registering inbred dogs with the AKC, it happens a lot more than you might think...and yet still there's no new Inox or Lubeck created here, is there?  That's because the Inox' or Lubecks are 'once in a blue moon' dogs, just as the great dogs who have no linebreeding at all don't appear every day, either. 

I never said Daryl's dogs were worthless. Lacking any certifications on the soundness of their hips and elbows, yes, but worthless, no. Lacking in any independent confirmation of their willingness to work, of their ability to handle the pressure of training and working over a sustained period of time, yes, but never said they are worthless. Lacking in a valid registration with the primary registry for purebred dogs in the US, well, that was questioned, but if you take note, I had my doubts on that point since he was advertising the present litter as selling with full AKC registration and said as much.  

As for knowing that he's "done nothing as far as checking out the dogs' hips", I suppose it's possible that he had films done by the local vet on one or more of the dogs, but I've seen far too many general practitioner vets misread a hip or elbow x-ray to put any stock in that kind of 'checking'.  OFA, a-stamp, PennHIP, OVC or some similiar *official* certification of soundness, or it didn't happen.

And Daryl himself stated that he would probably have their hips checked someday just to satisfy his own curiousity. That certainly suggests he hasn't done so to date.

I've wearied of this now, Jeff, because we're down a rabbit-hole far afield from the original thread. And I have to get my tax stuff together before I head to the accountant's, so I'm done with this discussion.  BTW, congrats on YOUR dog's OFA Excellent rating--those are few and far between.  Even better if his littermates are all clear as well--THAT'S something worth perpetuating.

I admit it. Upon the advice and recommendation of several of the most noted and respected Schutzhund and k9 trainers in the world, I did breed ONE SchH BH, OFA h & e cerified female who was NOT V-rated and breed-surveyed Korklasse 1, within the last ten years.

ONE.

... not to a breed partner lacking V, SchH3, KK1, normal hips and elbows.
Her pups, every one m-chipped and/r tattooed, listed with no less than 2 pet recovery databases, carry only the "Limited" AKC registration certificate until they possess working titles and OFA, and have been found by a Kormeister to be free of faults that would exclude them from the Korung... at the very least.
What was your point in bring that up again?

Here, everyone was up in arms when I mention Tito being a malx, but it sure got quiet when I mentioned his EPI and OCD. I wonder if they are going to replace him ?

10 months ago Tito was offered for 6000, or only 3800 for to someone who had experience to title him in SAR.