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by Blitzen on 20 March 2012 - 18:03
I see a house dog in your future, 4pack
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by susie on 20 March 2012 - 18:03
To 4pack:
Without being disrespectful
You are a young mother, so you don´t seem to be older than maybe 30 years
You sent back/sold 3 out of 4 puppies
Your current dog doesn´t seem to be titled
You do have the time to post more than 5000 times to a lot of different topics
For how long have you been involved in dogsport ( Schutzhund, Mondio, and/or Herding including trials?)
Two young children are a very good reason for not training a dog, but
Did you raise, train, and title different dogs with different characters in former times?
Did you visit different clubs, meet different members? Not once-I´m talking about a couple of years.
Did you read all these sh**** threads about women breeding German Shepherds without trials and being proud of it?
Maybe I am totally wrong, but you seem to be unexperienced. Your point of view may change during the years, maybe not.
But I am glad you don´t want to breed a not proven dog. You seem to love your dogs ( the ones you kept ) and at the end, that´s what counts.
Kind regards,
Susie
Without being disrespectful
You are a young mother, so you don´t seem to be older than maybe 30 years
You sent back/sold 3 out of 4 puppies
Your current dog doesn´t seem to be titled
You do have the time to post more than 5000 times to a lot of different topics
For how long have you been involved in dogsport ( Schutzhund, Mondio, and/or Herding including trials?)
Two young children are a very good reason for not training a dog, but
Did you raise, train, and title different dogs with different characters in former times?
Did you visit different clubs, meet different members? Not once-I´m talking about a couple of years.
Did you read all these sh**** threads about women breeding German Shepherds without trials and being proud of it?
Maybe I am totally wrong, but you seem to be unexperienced. Your point of view may change during the years, maybe not.
But I am glad you don´t want to breed a not proven dog. You seem to love your dogs ( the ones you kept ) and at the end, that´s what counts.
Kind regards,
Susie
by zdog on 20 March 2012 - 19:03
about the number of men compared to women, maybe I train in a weird place, but between my former club 3 hours + away, almost 2 to 1 women to men and my current club, almost 3 to one women to men, plus a group of use that are on a best night 50/50, but most nights it's again 3 to one, i'm not so sure the men vastly outnumber the women, my experience has been anything but. These are all bite sports, ring and schutzhund.
by 4pack on 20 March 2012 - 19:03
Susie your assumption about being a younge mother isn't all that correct. I have a 17yr old daughter. I remarried and started again when I found the right man to have children with.
Nope my dog isn't titled in anything I would care to share proudly.
I have been posting here for 6 years and I worked from home for 7 years so I had allot of time to read and post, your point?
I have played with herding on my own and I started traing for PSA about 4.5 yrs ago. Nothing in the last 1.5 because the sport is no longer in my area of the country.
I have raised and trained probably close to 15 of my own dogs since I have been an adult. I put obedience on many more not for titles but to save their lives at rescues to better help them find homes. Of course many of those dogs were different temperaments and characters.
I have visited and trained with 8 clubs consisting of 4 different venues including police work, FR, PSA and Schutzhund. Of course I met and talked to members and this was over various time frames for each.
I have read shit threads about people of both genders breeding unproven dogs and even worse, the one who all of this started about a man who breeds unhealth tested dogs.
I don't think you know what my point of view is. The way your post sounds is that you think I am OK with doing so and that is NOT correct at all. I wouldn't buy a dog that wasn't out of health tested parents. I can get such a dog for next to nothing out of the pound or from a rescue if that was the case and save myself hundreds of dollars.
I may be less experienced than some when it comes to dog sports or bitework but I grew up as an only child and my dog was my whole world. I taught that dog everything I could as a youngster, OB, tracking, herding, protection and even hand signals for her commands. I loved and worked her for 13 wonderfull years. Training a good dog isn't a difficult thing to do, training a shitty dog is where the work comes in. I don't have the free time I did as a kid, so I expect a good dog and if I don't get what I pay for from a breeder, why would I keep it, feed it and waste my precious time with it if it was not a good match for me? Because I'm a woman and I should be more heart than head? Becasue I have the room to house an unlimited number of dogs and can afford to feed even the ones that don't fit my needs? If I was looking for a pet for my kids, maybe whatever showed up would be OK but I was looking for a specific kind of dog. Now that my venue is gone and I don't have the time anyway, it doesn't matter.
There are as many if not more men doing the wrong thing in the dog world. Blaming women is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!
Nope my dog isn't titled in anything I would care to share proudly.
I have been posting here for 6 years and I worked from home for 7 years so I had allot of time to read and post, your point?
I have played with herding on my own and I started traing for PSA about 4.5 yrs ago. Nothing in the last 1.5 because the sport is no longer in my area of the country.
I have raised and trained probably close to 15 of my own dogs since I have been an adult. I put obedience on many more not for titles but to save their lives at rescues to better help them find homes. Of course many of those dogs were different temperaments and characters.
I have visited and trained with 8 clubs consisting of 4 different venues including police work, FR, PSA and Schutzhund. Of course I met and talked to members and this was over various time frames for each.
I have read shit threads about people of both genders breeding unproven dogs and even worse, the one who all of this started about a man who breeds unhealth tested dogs.
I don't think you know what my point of view is. The way your post sounds is that you think I am OK with doing so and that is NOT correct at all. I wouldn't buy a dog that wasn't out of health tested parents. I can get such a dog for next to nothing out of the pound or from a rescue if that was the case and save myself hundreds of dollars.
I may be less experienced than some when it comes to dog sports or bitework but I grew up as an only child and my dog was my whole world. I taught that dog everything I could as a youngster, OB, tracking, herding, protection and even hand signals for her commands. I loved and worked her for 13 wonderfull years. Training a good dog isn't a difficult thing to do, training a shitty dog is where the work comes in. I don't have the free time I did as a kid, so I expect a good dog and if I don't get what I pay for from a breeder, why would I keep it, feed it and waste my precious time with it if it was not a good match for me? Because I'm a woman and I should be more heart than head? Becasue I have the room to house an unlimited number of dogs and can afford to feed even the ones that don't fit my needs? If I was looking for a pet for my kids, maybe whatever showed up would be OK but I was looking for a specific kind of dog. Now that my venue is gone and I don't have the time anyway, it doesn't matter.
There are as many if not more men doing the wrong thing in the dog world. Blaming women is the stupidest thing I have ever heard!
by 4pack on 20 March 2012 - 20:03
Non of it is relevent, your club, my club, they are all different. And what event did Jeff choose to check the top 10? Was it even American? The club near my home in Germany was predominatly male, but would I say that was the "norm" for the whole country? Uh no. Non of this is "factual" unless you get the numbers to all of them and compare. Then how do you seperate those who are just having fun to those who spend thousands to make it to the top? Most are not interested in being number 1, they just want to work their dog, the one they have right now, crapper or not. If they like doing that they usually get a better dog down the road.
Just like the Chef example someone laid out. Most Top Chefs are men, yet more women cook. Probably because women cook for their families and arent worried as much as making a career out of it. As long as you can cook and people enjoy your food, who gives a crap if you win ribbons doing it? We stay at home longer, have less opportunity to do what WE want, we do what works for the family unit. Mothers do not put their children or husbands on hold to pursue Top Chef or win the Worlds. We usually step aside and let our husbands and children achieve their dreams. That is where males and female are diferent. Some woman choose to stay single or childless to achieve more at something. I can't offer much into that because I am not one of them.
by susie on 20 March 2012 - 22:03
The language barriere seems to be bigger than I thought.
I never said women can´t train dogs - I´m a woman, I raise, train, title, and handle German Shepherds for more than 30 years now.
Some of the best trainers in my area are women.
I never said women ruined the breed.
But I am convinced women CHANGED the breed.
The better-the worse? This is a very interesting question.
30 years ago men trained their dogs, most women only were spectators.
Today there are a lot more women on the field than in former times, in Schutzhund around as much as men, in Agility, SAR, Therapy, you mostly see women only.
Training methods changed thanks to the women to the better. The pressure became less, the dogs have fun. And they get the points.
I´m not debating about a decade of 3 years ( if I understood right, that has been your "active" time, if I missed something -sorry ).
To rescue dogs is a great thing, to rehome them after obedience training them - great.
But where is the context between obedience training a rescue and the development of a breed?
And how the hell have you been able to raise and train 15 own dogs in around 20 years? What happened to all of these dogs? Even if a dog only becomes 8 years old there must have been a whole gang on your property.What kind of breeds? German Shepherds?
I stick with the German Shepherd my whole life, and that´s the only breed I am really able to talk about.
The breed changed - that´s a fact. But why? And we are talking about women, not about environment, government, men, or money.
All of the women entering this topic seem to feel insulted - why?
Most women train different to men ( please listen - I said "most", not "all")
Most women look for other attributes in a dog than men
More and more women become breeder, especially in the States ( look above - SAR, Agility, Therapy )
Most women give their dogs more time for development, because they don´t want to sell their dog ( You do, I understood that point )
Useless to repeat all of this, I tried it earlier.
I´m still convinced you need some more years of experience, not in dogs, but in the breed, and in training a special breed, to see the difference.
Kind regards,
Susie
I never said women can´t train dogs - I´m a woman, I raise, train, title, and handle German Shepherds for more than 30 years now.
Some of the best trainers in my area are women.
I never said women ruined the breed.
But I am convinced women CHANGED the breed.
The better-the worse? This is a very interesting question.
30 years ago men trained their dogs, most women only were spectators.
Today there are a lot more women on the field than in former times, in Schutzhund around as much as men, in Agility, SAR, Therapy, you mostly see women only.
Training methods changed thanks to the women to the better. The pressure became less, the dogs have fun. And they get the points.
I´m not debating about a decade of 3 years ( if I understood right, that has been your "active" time, if I missed something -sorry ).
To rescue dogs is a great thing, to rehome them after obedience training them - great.
But where is the context between obedience training a rescue and the development of a breed?
And how the hell have you been able to raise and train 15 own dogs in around 20 years? What happened to all of these dogs? Even if a dog only becomes 8 years old there must have been a whole gang on your property.What kind of breeds? German Shepherds?
I stick with the German Shepherd my whole life, and that´s the only breed I am really able to talk about.
The breed changed - that´s a fact. But why? And we are talking about women, not about environment, government, men, or money.
All of the women entering this topic seem to feel insulted - why?
Most women train different to men ( please listen - I said "most", not "all")
Most women look for other attributes in a dog than men
More and more women become breeder, especially in the States ( look above - SAR, Agility, Therapy )
Most women give their dogs more time for development, because they don´t want to sell their dog ( You do, I understood that point )
Useless to repeat all of this, I tried it earlier.
I´m still convinced you need some more years of experience, not in dogs, but in the breed, and in training a special breed, to see the difference.
Kind regards,
Susie
by 4pack on 21 March 2012 - 00:03
I was talking about the GSD for the most part. I haven't owned another breed in almost 20 yrs. I worked for a GSD rescue.
Where are all of those dogs? I'm sure they are dead by now. My daughter has 1 I gave her still, I gave a few away, had a couple stolen, sold a few, the rest died here with me.
OK so you have not "said" women ruined the breed but you imply it in your posts.
It has nothing to do with women handling them, it is the world we live in and stupid handlers/owners and sue happy people who do not educate their children about how to approach a strange dog. Thank God my dogs are solid around kids and people in general so public stupidity hasn't affected me, further than irritation. People think they want a strong or aggressive dog until they have to live with the damn thing. They leave gates unlocked, they carelessly handle their dogs, they get a lawsuit handed to them or they have their alpha dog sit on the couch and sleep in the bed with them and wonder why he doesn't respect their rules. This happens enough, not enough buyers want this kind of dog anymore and then breeders quit breeding for this kind of dog. Now we are breeding lifeless, unenergetic, driveless dogs that sit next to the fireplace looking pretty and don't dig holes in the garden. The men are just as guilty in all of this mess.
Because I have only actively trained and trialed 3-4 yrs doesn't mean I haven't been around dogs and dog people most of my life. At some times in my life I was more active concerning dogs and how much of my life they took up. Right now I just keep my dog in shape and work his OB enough to satisfy myself that he's still got it. Luckily my current dog is super easy to live with and has always been a dog that can not train for months and go right back to where we left off.
As far as keeping with the breed, I'm seriously thinking of trying something different, at least until I am ready in my life to trial again. Probably many years down the road when my kids are grown. I am frusterated with the dogs out there and the people involved with the breed. I can only hope the breed doesn't change further for the worse but it seems everything turns in that direction sooner or later. If their is one thing the human race knows how to do, it's screw up a good thing.
Where are all of those dogs? I'm sure they are dead by now. My daughter has 1 I gave her still, I gave a few away, had a couple stolen, sold a few, the rest died here with me.
OK so you have not "said" women ruined the breed but you imply it in your posts.
It has nothing to do with women handling them, it is the world we live in and stupid handlers/owners and sue happy people who do not educate their children about how to approach a strange dog. Thank God my dogs are solid around kids and people in general so public stupidity hasn't affected me, further than irritation. People think they want a strong or aggressive dog until they have to live with the damn thing. They leave gates unlocked, they carelessly handle their dogs, they get a lawsuit handed to them or they have their alpha dog sit on the couch and sleep in the bed with them and wonder why he doesn't respect their rules. This happens enough, not enough buyers want this kind of dog anymore and then breeders quit breeding for this kind of dog. Now we are breeding lifeless, unenergetic, driveless dogs that sit next to the fireplace looking pretty and don't dig holes in the garden. The men are just as guilty in all of this mess.
Because I have only actively trained and trialed 3-4 yrs doesn't mean I haven't been around dogs and dog people most of my life. At some times in my life I was more active concerning dogs and how much of my life they took up. Right now I just keep my dog in shape and work his OB enough to satisfy myself that he's still got it. Luckily my current dog is super easy to live with and has always been a dog that can not train for months and go right back to where we left off.
As far as keeping with the breed, I'm seriously thinking of trying something different, at least until I am ready in my life to trial again. Probably many years down the road when my kids are grown. I am frusterated with the dogs out there and the people involved with the breed. I can only hope the breed doesn't change further for the worse but it seems everything turns in that direction sooner or later. If their is one thing the human race knows how to do, it's screw up a good thing.
by beetree on 21 March 2012 - 12:03
| All of the women entering this topic seem to feel insulted - why? |
Susie, I think the answer to your question is because there is a difference in saying women have "changed" the breed and "ruined" the breed. The women don't want to accept blame for ruining a breed because of gender differences based on a biological lack of strength. This is something we are taught can be overcome with other means, for instance greater patience and stellar technique.
However, it is probably true, that if the "change" in a breed was perceived as a good one, due to our female gender strengths, we'd be more than happy to claim it.
by 4pack on 21 March 2012 - 15:03
Not to mention that the jerk that said as much, has voiced his women bashing opinions and been booted off of at least 3 Internet forums in the last year for doing so. He is a trouble maker and enjoys stirring the bees nest.
by Bob McKown on 21 March 2012 - 15:03
To Susie:
Do you work with Show line or Working line dogs ?.
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