Cant a Good dog (Show line) be Sable? - Page 2

"Cant a Good dog (Show line) be Sable?" Sure they can! They just won't win anything in a show. Funny how the dominant color of our breed is shunned in the ring. Kyle

I love a beautifully structured sable. Recently I have been looking for an excellent Timo daughter but without success. I have concerns for the prevalent prejudice in the show world for the red-red and black dogs, for the reason that this colour is recessive to sable. I think breeding almost exclusively for this type of coat colour is a serious mistake and I believe the judges if they are concerned about the future strength of the breed should start putting less emphasis on this colour. (Maybe the dying for the show ring would end if this happened LOL.) My main concern, as with any breeding prejudice that supports a particular factor that is recessive to other variants, is that no one knows yet what genes may be linked to that factor and how we may be setting/fixing in the breed unhealthy factors associated with an over-emphasis on this one type of coat colour. We have gone too far in this direction.

There have been some; not enough, by far; of the Sables who have done well in the breed show ring. But again, I venture to say, far, few, and in between, at best!! This is nothing more then fads of more desired colors; such as red/backs; a huge prejudice by judges, spectators; by all, it seems! This is a shame that we cannot get past this issue; because it is absolutely true; a quality dog is a quality dog, no matter what the color! Although, some colors, (whether it be in the Sables, Blk/Tans, Blk/Reds, or Red/Blks), all have their share of lighter, or deeper pigment/markings and overall color of the dogs, more times then not, the lighter, faded coloring do not please the visual eye as much; never the less, it is the total dog to be judged, and his attributes; not merely his coloring! If you have ever seen a deep, dark, rich red sable; it is just gorgeous, and very different, and really striking! Sable is a dominent when breeding; usually half, or more of the litter will be sable, even if just one parent dog is Sable, and the other not! Also, just a note about longcoats produced, or not with a Sable parent dog; this is not true! One Sable female bred to a Blk/Red/Brown male, we still produced 2 coats in a litter of eight! Dam and Sire must both carry the coat gene to produce any coats in a litter! Top quality Sables should be carried on for show/work/breeding like any other top quality GSD! GSDBreeder

Von Arlett is a top breeder that uses Sables in the breeding of the Von Arlett Show Line. http://www.arlett.de/ Click on the sable article on the left, it is wrote in many languages, so many can read it without a language barrier.

Thank you Weiner, very informative. I'll keep that site for future reading.

Sables are always at a disadvantage in the show ring! Working lines have been looked down at for many year by show people for color and structure.I guess thats why you do not see many show people showing sables! Predjudice is a ugly word!

Hi all, posting from UK here - I have always been interested in sables and always will be. Have owned and bred a few in the past years. No matter the colour of the dog, and as GSD Breeder says, both male and female if they carry the longcoat gene will produce longcoats in their litters, and the same goes for sables. In UK I have actually seen a whole litter of BLUE SABLES - SHORT AND LONG COATED with blue eyes, I was astonished to say the least, but the dogs were all healthy animals and went to obedience and pet homes, and they were from a sable father (grey) and a black/tan mother. In the UK they are usually called either grey (because the colour is like the wolf grey), rich red sable and golden sable (paler under and overcoat). I believe all sables in Germany are classed as GREYS, I have heard judges from SV at shows in UK calling them all greys. I may be wrong however, but only what I have actually heard them say in the ring. Timo was fantastic and I was so disappointed he did not become Sieger. I have used a grey sable and had a wonderful litter - but the sable puppies both male and female were golden sables, the mother was deep black/tan (as a puppy like Doberman colours). I remember being told from our esteemed Geneticist in UK that if we keep breeding blacks/tans over and over we start to get white appearing and that is certainly becoming obvious with puppies showing white toes, white flashes on chests and white tips on tales. However, some of my past sables had white toes and white tail tips which disappeared as they reach a few months old. Past word has it that the reason the Germans keep their sables and use them for breeding is to introduce better overall pigment if their litters begin to show signs of paling. Another piece of info that might be useful is the black points - animals with black noses, pads, lips, good masks and the TIPS of their hairs (run your fingers along the top hairs and if the tips are black they are NOT paling, if the tips are pale, silver or white this can show paling coats, and also the black tips of their tails is another indication of pigment along with black pigment spots on tongues. I have followed this info for over 23 years and find most of this to be very true. I am not sure about this bit, but I believe it is the progeny of the sables that go on to correct the pigment in the next generation, although I cannot be sure of the in depth genetics of this. Lastly, I have seen many a good sable and think they should be recognised in the Show Ring foreby their coat colour. More info would be much appreciated as I just love sables of all colours.

GSD Breeder, I agree about the requirement that both parents must carry the recessive longcoat gene in order to produce the occasional longcoat. That is why I recently questioned the validity of the statement that I heard long ago. While it seemed to make some sense at the time it was said, it was before I had any knowledge (still very limited) of canine genetics. Perhaps the truth is that there are fewer dogs who carry this gene in the group of true sable type vs. the saddle type, but I doubt that as well. The sable is a foundation colour that is visible, even in small amounts, on nearly all GSD's. I know that the GSD and the North American Husky (surely there are more?) share the sable hair with the modern-day wolf. Bob-O

you are a fool. all of your concepts are based on idiocy and I hope you die before you affect the breed in any way.

This is an Excellent Thread ! And beauty definately belongs to the beholder, I like the Black and red saddles/blankets. But I have seen some beautiful sables as well, fact is my daughter loves the sables. Have seen some striking Bi-colors and don't really preffer blacks, whites are a fluke in my OP only. However if coat color is not a factor, Then why are the whites DQ or serious fault, why are blues and livers considered serious fault, if coat color should have no bearing on Health, Lovgevity, Temperament,Working ability, Why are they faults ? no trying to be condiscending, Really want to know WHY